Slight wobble with Perfect Seal Toilet Wax Ring

[Mark Ezrin]

I just tried installing the Perfect Seal Toilet Wax Ring. The back of the toilet has a slight rock or wobble from side to side.

I've already taken out the black plastic insert and because the flange is above the floor, I'm not using the blue adapter. I've already sat on it and tried putting weight into to compress it more. I've tried gently rocking the toilet. The toilet did sit flush with the old wax ring so I don't think it is the tile floor.

(1) If I bolt it down, will that compress it the rest of the way?

(2) I know I could put down some shims down but for whatever reason, I'm less comfortable doing this. No idea why not other than I've not done it for any other toilet so no experience.

(3) Would a traditional wax ring solve the problem I'm having and be the smarter way to go?

As always, thanks for the advice.

Mark

 

[Reach4]

You may need shims. With that waxless seal, you should be able to shove those in without removing the toilet.

How much gap is there when you wobble the toilet?

Did you have this same toilet installed previously without wobble? If so, wax could do the job, but it is pretty common to need shims even with wax. When using shims with wax, you have to avoid the wobble by getting the shims in place before dropping the toilet.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Mark Ezrin]

I've rocked the toilet some more and there is less wobbling, but still not 100%.

I bought the plastic shims last night. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Plumb-Pak-Plastic-Toilet-Hardware-Kit/3133325

Are there any thoughts or best practices for shims? I read somewhere, perhaps here, that shims should go in the back part of the bowl.

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

I would throw a level on the porcelain. What does that show?

How big is the gap when you rock?

 

[Mark Ezrin]

The bowl itself is level. I put a level on the bowl right in front of the tank and it is perfectly level.
The tank doesn't appear level. I put a level on the tank and it is off.

The gap is slight enough that I can't just slide a shim underneath any side of the bowl.

I removed the toilet and verified the floor itself is pretty level. Looking down, the left side of the tile near the front of the bowl might slightly lower, but just slightly.

Now that I lifted this hybrid wax ring (see pic), am I better off just cutting bait and going to old fashioned wax? If so, how do I know if I want the jumbo or regular wax ring?

Thanks again.

 

[Reach4]

The gap is slight enough that I can't just slide a shim underneath any side of the bowl.

I removed the toilet and verified the floor itself is pretty level. Looking down, the left side of the tile near the front of the bowl might slightly lower, but just slightly.

Too bad you removed that. If you had wobble, but the crack was too thin for a shim, you could have used a thinner shim. If the composite shim doesn't fit the tiny crack, rub the end inch of the shim on sandpaper. You could sand the tip of the shim to paper-thin. If you were not using the composite shims, they might have already been thin enough. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/toilet-shims.17919/#post-117761

Now that I lifted this hybrid wax ring (see pic), am I better off just cutting bait and going to old fashioned wax? If so, how do I know if I want the jumbo or regular wax ring?

Dry-fit the toilet (no wax or waxless). Does it wobble at all that way? If so, you will need shims.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

So, despite what they say about the next perfect seal hybrid wax ring allowing you to remove it and reposition, is your assessment that I cannot reposition and I need to remove it and start over?

I was using these plastic shims: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Plumb-Pak-Plastic-Toilet-Hardware-Kit/3133325

When you say dry fit with no wax or waxless, get a totally different ring - one that has absolutely no wax? Or dry fit with nothing there (clean up/remove the next perfect ring?)? I'm sorry I'm not following.

I'm pretty sure before this "repair" the toilet didn't wobble. Or if it did, it was recent (it is 17 years old) and is not cracked or broken. We had a leak and I removed it to remediate the mess.

To get this project done as it has dragged on, what would you suggest?
Can I salvage what I have via the next perfect wax ring? Remove it, clean it up? set toilet and test for no or minimal wobble and then use a regular wax ring? Jumbo or regular wax ring if I go this route?

Thank you so much.

 

[Reach4]

So, despite what they say about the next perfect seal hybrid wax ring allowing you to remove it and reposition, is your assessment that I cannot reposition and I need to remove it and start over?

If they say you can remove it and put it back on the flange, then I would have no reason to doubt that. I was thinking you could remove the toilet and put it back on the seal. When you said you removed it from the flange, I thought it was not going back.

Before continuing.... How does the altitude of the top of the closet flange itself compare with the surface of the floor? It can't be that much. Get shims in, and you should be in good shape.

I was using these plastic shims: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Plumb-Pak-Plastic-Toilet-Hardware-Kit/3133325

Maybe you could sand the ones you have to be thin enough. I was thinking of these: https://www.lowes.com/pd/TimberWolf...n-x-7-9375-in-12-Pack-Composite-Shims/3377156 You could consider using a dime or two, or a stainless washer if you have that.

The nice thing about that Danco Perfect Seal is that you can add shims if needed after you drop the toilet on it. https://www.danco.com/product/perfect-seal-toilet-wax-ring/

 

[WorthFlorida]

Just use a regular wax ring. I tried one of these no wax rings and I also had problems.

If you insist on the no wax ring, get a tube of ceramic caulking grout, (sanded and many colors available) that you use with a caulking gun. after bowl is in, squeeze the grout under the entire base of the bowl at the floor. Where there is the gap allowing the rocking, try sliding a dime under the bowl to prevent rocking or any other small shim. Wet finger it smooth and then use a damp sponge to wipe away the excess. Let it dry to hardened.

Or just load up under the bowl the same color grout used for the floor. Fill in the gap with plenty of grout all around the bowl perimeter. Wipe up the excess with a wet sponge and let it sit to harden. There will be no more rocking.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Custom-...-Sanded-Ceramic-Tile-Caulk-PC38210S/100678065

 

[Steve7878]

About 3 years ago I decided to try out the waxless rings. I bought 3 of the most popular brands.
I can tell you that none of them would work. They were too high and the toilet was going to sit on the floor with the flange on top of the floor where it is supposed to be.
This was with a new A.S Cadet 3 toilet. My conclusion is they will not work unless your flange is recessed

 

[Mark Ezrin]

No, I'm not wedded to a no wax ring. It just seemed like something good.

So, my one unanswered question is how do I determine/choose the right size wax ring? I've seen a standard and a jumbo?

Thanks.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

You are supposed to start with NO wax ring. Set the toilet and determine where the shims need to make the toilet sit rock solid on the floor. Once that is determined, then install with the wax or seal. The bolts are not meant to pull the bowl down, and doing so is a good way to crack the porcelain.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

You are supposed to start with NO wax ring. Set the toilet and determine where the shims need to make the toilet sit rock solid on the floor. Once that is determined, then install with the wax or seal. The bolts are not meant to pull the bowl down, and doing so is a good way to crack the porcelain.

Thank you. When I ultimately go for the final installation after testing, how do I know if I should use the regular or jumbo wax ring?

I appreciate the feedback.

 

[Cacher_Chick]

Unless the flange is recessed more than 1/4” below the finished floor, a regular wax should be fine.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

Thank you so much.

No, the flange is on top of the tiled floor. Tonight, I'll remove the Next Perfect Seal, set the toilet to test for any floor deviation and wobble and then use a standard wax ring.

I appreciate the patience and advice.

 

[Reach4]

No, the flange is on top of the tiled floor. Tonight, I'll remove the Next Perfect Seal, set the toilet to test for any floor deviation and wobble and then use a standard wax ring.

While there, could you measure altitude of the top of the closet flange itself compared with the surface of the floor, and tell us what that number was?

 

[Mark Ezrin]

Of course. Thanks.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

It appears to me to be about 1/2" (my eye doctor appt is actually Thursday am).

Obviously not below floor level so I'll go w/a standard wax ring.

This is with the Next Perfect Seal that I'll be removing later.

Thanks.

 

[Reach4]

Thanks. EDIT: I would call that about 7/16 inch (just shy of 1/2) to the top of the closet flange. That is higher than I would expect with a metal-ring toilet flange.

 

[Mark Ezrin]

I wasn't kidding when I said I'm going to the eye doctor. I'm using readers right now as my glasses broke.

So, a standard, not jumbo wax ring should do the trick?

Thanks!