Shower Tub Integrated Diverter

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Nmarolf

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Looking for advice/expertise - kids bathroom remodel, everything ripped out and starting fresh. I would like for my kids to be able to turn on the shower and have it default to the shower, not the tub. Seems easy enough but I've spent days scouring forums/internet looking for a standardized solution but can't seem to find one - or I'm seeing it, but don't understand it. I'm willing to do whatever plumbing it takes since everything is brand new - now is my chance.

Is the solution using a standard shower diverter for a handheld shower (2-function transfer valve) but instead running it to the tub spout and buying a non-diverting spout?
The other (easier) solution I've found is installing a standard/basic shower/tub trim and mixing valve, but using this tub spout with integrated ball valve: https://www.grainger.com/product/415F65

kissler-tub-spout-diverter.jpg


I'm open to suggestions, I know this is a small issue but it is something I'd like to do if possible. If there is something I'm missing, please let me know.
 
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Nmarolf

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Yes I have found a ball valve tub spout that I linked to in my first post, but the video is only someone's animated graphic.
If this is the only solution than that is what I will do. Unfortunately it only comes in chrome.

I'm still trying to find a solution other than at the tub spout.
 

Nmarolf

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Anyone have thoughts on using a standard mixer/diverter? I would run 1/2" PEX to the showerhead and to the bathtub from the diverter. Since I'm not using a traditional diverter in the tub spout there wouldn't be any issues with not enough flow (PEX vs copper) and shower dripping etc. I can't see any problem with this unless by code the tub has to fill at a certain gpm.

I'd use something like this and a diverter-less tub spout. https://www.amazon.com/T27867-Angular-3-Setting-Integrated-Diverter/dp/B01M3PZK9T/
Thanks.
 

Weekend Handyman

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I am not a plumber or a pro. I am pretty sure you can get shower valves that have the control to switch from tub to shower right on the valve body. Would that work?
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Anyone have thoughts on using a standard mixer/diverter? I would run 1/2" PEX to the showerhead and to the bathtub from the diverter. Since I'm not using a traditional diverter in the tub spout there wouldn't be any issues with not enough flow (PEX vs copper) and shower dripping etc. I can't see any problem with this unless by code the tub has to fill at a certain gpm.

I'd use something like this and a diverter-less tub spout. https://www.amazon.com/T27867-Angular-3-Setting-Integrated-Diverter/dp/B01M3PZK9T/
Thanks.

This is a valve we install all the time. The water comes out of whichever port the handle is pointed to.
 

Nmarolf

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I am not a plumber or a pro. I am pretty sure you can get shower valves that have the control to switch from tub to shower right on the valve body. Would that work?
I believe that the valve/switch you are refering to still defaults to the tub and once pressed stays switched to the shower head by water pressure. I'm wanting a diverter to always be on shower until switched to the tub spout.
 

Nmarolf

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This is a valve we install all the time. The water comes out of whichever port the handle is pointed to.
Yes it is common for a diverter between shower head and handheld shower. I'm going to use it to divert between shower and tub. I'm just brainstorming if this is a problem or not, e.g. not code, or something else. Have you used it for that purpose? Thanks for the reply.
 

John Gayewski

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If the valve is in made for a shower/ sprayer it will likely take forever for your tub to fill up.

I think most people prefer a ball valve at the spout. That way you get the larger flow at the tub as the passage way in the valve is larger.

You can have it default to either that way and the ball will actually cut all of the the flow reliably.
 

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I'm just brainstorming if this is a problem or not, e.g. not code, or something else. Have you used it for that purpose? Thanks for the reply
I think it should be fine. Assuming its not a HUGE tub you're still going to get at least 5gpm out of the spout through the diverter. And for as many times as the tub is filled that likely is fine. And yes, we have installed water to non diverting tub

Per Delta: • Maximum system flow rate 5.0 gpm at 60 psi with R22000
 

John Gayewski

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Per Delta: • Maximum system flow rate 5.0 gpm at 60 psi with R22000
Is that with the shower and sprayer both going at once? I don't think they can legally have a valve designed for a shower head that delivers 5gpm. I'm no lawyer though, lol. Since 2.5 is the legal limit it'll probably get less. I know when I've measured it's less.

Maybe it does do 5 for a double showerhead situation.
 
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SteveM

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I am in the same situation and I can't believe this is not more common and has a good solution. We also have alcove bath and shower which is torn apart so I can do anything. We will rarely if ever use that bath but keeping it for resale value as it is the only one in house. So I want the setup to be a pressure balanced valve/trim ideally with separate temp and volume knobs. We also would prefer to have valve mounted at normal shower only height, not down low by the tub.

It looked like the Delta Multichoice R22000 series would be perfect until I found out it is not recommended for tubs, only between shower outlets because all ports are only 2.5gpm. I was told it would work (shower on one port and tub on other) but it would take more than twice as long to fill tub as you only get 2.5gpm instead of 6-8.

I was told the Kohler Rite-temp 11748 rough in valve with the trim with integrated push button diverter would work but it still defaults to tub outlet.

Also it looks like anything with a tub outlet they want the valve no more than 18" above spout.

The only other idea I had was instead of using a diverter, split the water supply and put 2 separate rough in valves in - maybe a basic one down low for the tub spout without a diverter and then a nicer pressure balanced one up higher for the shower and just have the tub and shower operate completely independently. But that seems overly complex.

I looked at the spout with ball valve diverter and as long as main valve could be mounted up higher, in theory it would work but I was only able to find that one cheap Kissler in chrome which won't work.

Are there any other solutions, surely this is not a one off special case, I would imagine this would be a fairly common scenario.

Any ideas? nmarolf - what did you wind up doing?
 

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Delta R22000 specs indicate from 5-7gpm at 60psi through its diverter. Most tubs have about 30gal of water.. so thats 4-5 minutes to fill.
 

SteveM

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Delta R22000 specs indicate from 5-7gpm at 60psi through its diverter. Most tubs have about 30gal of water.. so thats 4-5 minutes to fill.
Thanks for the reply Tuttles. In theory that makes sense but why does both Delta and Ferguson say NOT to use it for tubs? Is it possible the valve itself flows 5-7gpm but when you put the cartridge/diverter that only flows 2.5gpm? There has to be a reason they say not to use it for tub if it flows the normal 5-7???
 

John Gayewski

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I think I would use the r10000 and get the cartridge that has the separate controls. Then tub spout with ball valve handle.
 

SteveM

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I think I would use the r10000 and get the cartridge that has the separate controls. Then tub spout with ball valve handle.
Thanks John, that was an option I looked at but like I said there only seems to be 1 of these ball valve diverter spouts - a cheap one from Kissler that won't match any decent trim from Delta, Kohler, etc. Wife would have my head!

The R22000 seems like the perfect option if it were to work. I'd love to hear from someone that actually installed one and can say how slow the tub fill is. I don't need super speedy but it can't take all day either.
 

Tuttles Revenge

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Thanks for the reply Tuttles. In theory that makes sense but why does both Delta and Ferguson say NOT to use it for tubs? Is it possible the valve itself flows 5-7gpm but when you put the cartridge/diverter that only flows 2.5gpm? There has to be a reason they say not to use it for tub if it flows the normal 5-7???
I can't find the flow rate in the R10000 to compare to the R22000. Flow rates for tubs just doesn't come up unless its for a giant soaking tub or a walk in tub with 100gal capacity.
 

Nmarolf

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I am in the same situation and I can't believe this is not more common and has a good solution. We also have alcove bath and shower which is torn apart so I can do anything. We will rarely if ever use that bath but keeping it for resale value as it is the only one in house. So I want the setup to be a pressure balanced valve/trim ideally with separate temp and volume knobs. We also would prefer to have valve mounted at normal shower only height, not down low by the tub.

It looked like the Delta Multichoice R22000 series would be perfect until I found out it is not recommended for tubs, only between shower outlets because all ports are only 2.5gpm. I was told it would work (shower on one port and tub on other) but it would take more than twice as long to fill tub as you only get 2.5gpm instead of 6-8.

I was told the Kohler Rite-temp 11748 rough in valve with the trim with integrated push button diverter would work but it still defaults to tub outlet.

Also it looks like anything with a tub outlet they want the valve no more than 18" above spout.

The only other idea I had was instead of using a diverter, split the water supply and put 2 separate rough in valves in - maybe a basic one down low for the tub spout without a diverter and then a nicer pressure balanced one up higher for the shower and just have the tub and shower operate completely independently. But that seems overly complex.

I looked at the spout with ball valve diverter and as long as main valve could be mounted up higher, in theory it would work but I was only able to find that one cheap Kissler in chrome which won't work.

Are there any other solutions, surely this is not a one off special case, I would imagine this would be a fairly common scenario.

Any ideas? nmarolf - what did you wind up doing?
I am in the same situation and I can't believe this is not more common and has a good solution. We also have alcove bath and shower which is torn apart so I can do anything. We will rarely if ever use that bath but keeping it for resale value as it is the only one in house. So I want the setup to be a pressure balanced valve/trim ideally with separate temp and volume knobs. We also would prefer to have valve mounted at normal shower only height, not down low by the tub.

It looked like the Delta Multichoice R22000 series would be perfect until I found out it is not recommended for tubs, only between shower outlets because all ports are only 2.5gpm. I was told it would work (shower on one port and tub on other) but it would take more than twice as long to fill tub as you only get 2.5gpm instead of 6-8.

I was told the Kohler Rite-temp 11748 rough in valve with the trim with integrated push button diverter would work but it still defaults to tub outlet.

Also it looks like anything with a tub outlet they want the valve no more than 18" above spout.

The only other idea I had was instead of using a diverter, split the water supply and put 2 separate rough in valves in - maybe a basic one down low for the tub spout without a diverter and then a nicer pressure balanced one up higher for the shower and just have the tub and shower operate completely independently. But that seems overly complex.

I looked at the spout with ball valve diverter and as long as main valve could be mounted up higher, in theory it would work but I was only able to find that one cheap Kissler in chrome which won't work.

Are there any other solutions, surely this is not a one off special case, I would imagine this would be a fairly common scenario.

Any ideas? nmarolf - what did you wind up doing?

SteveM - Sorry for the late reply, I got into the remodel and forgot about my post here. I ended up with a Delta Multichoice R22000 which will have plenty of flow IMO, even with 1/2" pex. I mounted it directly across the tub from where you get into it, see pictures. I ran pex to the valve and then ran a line to the tub spout and a line to the shower head. Shower head is the vertical position on the valve and tub is 9 o'clock position. I also bought the Delta Galeon handle trim kit (online at Lowes) which is heavy and very nice. I'm using just the 3-way diverter valve with the trim kit, no pressure modulation either, just simple on/off, hot/cold and tub/shower. I installed a Kohler Elmbrook tub which is pretty short (14.5"), but baths in our house occur 1-2 time per year. It has a nice flat bottom. (Picture with the stringer/ledger board was from an initial install of an American Standard tub that, upon installation I found was defective and it got sent back - yes a massive pain in the neck and ~1-month delay on the project)

I think the kids will be happy with this setup - you can reach accross the tub, turn water on, wait until it gets hot etc... rather than straddling the toilet pulling up the diverter, getting tangled in the shower curtain...
 

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Tuttles Revenge

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I was just reading the installation instructions for a Kohler valve we're installing and found instructions for their push button diverter valve that indicate it can be installed and operated to prioritize either the tub (typical) or the shower head. Probably too late for your installation, but if someone else runs into this.

K-11748-KS-NA

Showerhead as Primary Outlet NOTE: Illustration shows the recommended piping configuration. Piping may need to be modified to accommodate your specific site. Install piping and elbows to the showerhead and handshower supply locations. Use thread sealant on all threaded connections. Secure the piping to the framing. Solder all needed connections. Temporarily install 1/2” pipe nipples to the elbows so they will extend at least 2” (51 mm) beyond the finished wall. Install caps to both pipe nipples. Proceed to the “Reassemble the Valve” section.
 
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