Shower control valve set too close to diverter tub valve

[729zoom]

Hi, we remodeled our bathroom and recently installed the new plumbing fixtures and found the tub spout was leaking at the wall when we pulled the diverter up for the shower. After troubleshooting with Delta, uninstalling the adapter and spout, o-ring, etc. the leak persists. Now we are told that the issue is due to backflow because the shower control valve is only 6.5" above the tub spout and it was supposed to be no less than 8". The tile is new and the thought of tearing any of it out to redo the rough plumbing is killing me. Are there any workarounds or things that can be done to mitigate the leak? I am thinking that even if it were to leak a little when taking a shower (leaks down through the weep hole at the back of the spout down the front of the wall) as long as it never goes behind the wall I am ok? Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[Sylvan]

Normally prior to installing a shower valve read the roughing directions .

When one of my ex employees did the same thing I had to open the wall and reinstall the shower body at the proper height and was lucky enough to find the exact tiles

 

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[Breplum]

Have the pros who botched it, fix it. Don't live with that crap done by idiots.

 

[729zoom]

Have the pros who botched it, fix it. Don't live with that crap done by idiots.

just the thought of engaging with him and the idea of tile being torn out gives me heart burn. Is it even possible to take out just the tile around the pipes and put it back and still have the waterproofing? Because is a shower and not sure how they would make it water tight and make it work. the wall was floated with mortar. I just measured again more carefully and it looks like we have 7". That is only 1" off. Can 1" make that much of a difference? I don't understand how the length of the pipe can cause backflow and leaking or even how/why backflow would happen as a result of a too short pipe. Also, I downloaded Kohler rough in for tub shower and also Moen and Kohler says min of 7" and Moen says 6". Do these companies have different technology? I am curious as to why there is this difference. and you can tell I am desperate to avoid the nightmare of having to remove the beautiful new tile. But, I also know that I can't leave the leak. Was just hoping it was a defective faucet instead.

 

[729zoom]

Normally prior to installing a shower valve read the roughing directions .

When one of my ex employees did the same thing I had to open the wall and reinstall the shower body at the proper height and was lucky enough to find the exact tiles

can you give me details of what your employee did? Did he make the pipe between the shower control valve and tub spout too short? And it caused the leak?

 

[Breplum]

The leak is probably nothing related to the spacing. No spout, properly installed should leak.
Typical cheap stub out is just 1/2" copper tube and "compression" tub spouts are pure junk.
The safe and professional way to stub a tub spout is with a 1/2" FIP drop ear ell, secured to stout bracket or block, then brass nipple stubbed out so it can be serviced and fixed for decades.

 

[729zoom]

The leak is probably nothing related to the spacing. No spout, properly installed should leak.
Typical cheap stub out is just 1/2" copper tube and "compression" tub spouts are pure junk.
The safe and professional way to stub a tub spout is with a 1/2" FIP drop ear ell, secured to stout bracket or block, then brass nipple stubbed out so it can be serviced and fixed for decades.

the spout I got installs with an adapter that slides over the pipe and it tightens with a set screw. Is that considered compression? It makes me so mad that no matter how much you pay (trying to get quality to last) would have such issues. I paid nearly $400 for this spout. It is a Delta Brizo Invari model. but also upset with the plumber who did the rough plumbing for not reading the instructions. I am not sure how I can change how this is installed other than soldering it. but I would want to make sure there are no issues before that because than you can't get it off. At least I can get this thing off now.

 

[GReynolds929]

Did the set screw get over tightened and pierce the copper pipe? Take the adapter off and check if the copper is punctured where the set screw was. You could also put a sharkbite cap on the copper pipe and see if it leaks.

 

[Sylvan]

Just call the so called plumber back and tell him FIX THE LEAK PROPERLY and while he is at it open the wall check for mold and raise the shower body as required and he should be responsible for replacing the tiles. Did you ask for his license number and a certificate of insurance?

 

[729zoom]

Did the set screw get over tightened and pierce the copper pipe? Take the adapter off and check if the copper is punctured where the set screw was. You could also put a sharkbite cap on the copper pipe and see if it leaks.

no, the set screw was not put in too tight and when it was first installed, remember great care taken to prevent that. So, no issues with the pipe and was all taken apart to verify and check for all of these possibilities. That is why I am thinking maybe it is true that having the pipe at 7" instead of 8" could be the problem even though it doesn't make sense to me. I don't understand how these diverter tub spouts and valves work with pressure etc.

 

[729zoom]

Just call the so called plumber back and tell him FIX THE LEAK PROPERLY and while he is at it open the wall check for mold and raise the shower body as required and he should be responsible for replacing the tiles. Did you ask for his license number and a certificate of insurance?

I have his license number and he is bonded and insured. the thing is I don't want to open the wall because it means tearing out tile in a shower. I can't afford to pay for this. I saved for years to get this bathroom remodel and I have no way to pay to have tile redone again. Unless he is supposed to pay for that? But even if he is supposed to also do the tile, the idea of having to go through the mess again. I have a serious medical issue and need more treatment and want to be done with the bathroom so I can schedule it and not have it outstanding to make me worry - want to focus all my energy on my health. So, tearing out tile (even if he had to pay for it) would set me back a lot. So frustrating because I made a point to get a pro do the rough plumbing to avoid problems.

 

[729zoom]

The leak is probably nothing related to the spacing. No spout, properly installed should leak.
Typical cheap stub out is just 1/2" copper tube and "compression" tub spouts are pure junk.
The safe and professional way to stub a tub spout is with a 1/2" FIP drop ear ell, secured to stout bracket or block, then brass nipple stubbed out so it can be serviced and fixed for decades.

forgot to ask, why would Delta insist that the spacing is the issue if it isn't or have it in their instructions? It makes no sense to me that the length of the pipe could have this much of an impact but I am not a plumber or engineer that designs these things.

 

[Sylvan]

The reason for a longer tube /pipe below the shower body is Less friction loss as the Ell is lower and allows for better flow.

Most codes do state the tub spout has to be at least 2" above the tub to prevent the possibility of back flow into the potable water supply.

The plumber would normally be responsible for this and pay to have the tiles removed and replaced.

Also it will not be as much of a mess removing 16-20 tiles

 

[729zoom]

The reason for a longer tube /pipe below the shower body is Less friction loss as the Ell is lower and allows for better flow.

Most codes do state the tub spout has to be at least 2" above the tub to prevent the possibility of back flow into the potable water supply.

The plumber would normally be responsible for this and pay to have the tiles removed and replaced.

Also it will not be as much of a mess removing 16-20 tiles

Thank you for responding. the tub spout is 6" above the tub and the shower control valve is 7" above that. But Delta says it needs to be 8". so we are off by 1". Will this 1" difference in the pipe be the cause of the leak? Or is it just a potential issue with the water flow? because the flow of the water when I turn on the tub seems to be good. I just want to determine if this leak behind the spout is something that might be a defect in the spout or because the pipe is 1" too short. The delta person mentioned the backflow but when I google to read about it, it seems that that would come of the shower head. so confusing so why I was trying to get some input. I did speak to a retired contractor who claims that Delta is full of it and no way the 1" would make that much of a difference. But I don't want to trust he is experienced enough with plumbing to know for sure. And I have had bad info from Delta techs in the past, too.

 

[John Gayewski]

If water is leaking behind the wall it's not the height of the valve that is causing it. Have the plumber come and fix the leak. It sounds like the adapter should be soldered instead of using the o ring and set screw.

The plumber is responsible for leaks he would have to pay for any tile that may be necessary to fix a leak. Without looking at it I can't say for sure, but I don't think any tile needs to be removed.

 

[Breplum]

The spout spacing from the valve is strictly pertaining to how it could cause dripping at the shower head...Delta is WRONG if they state that your drip at the wall is related. The first line customer service at Delta is just reading from their protocol sheets.
Sounds like you definitely have a defect on the spout and they must replace under warranty.

 

[Sylvan]

can you give me details of what your employee did? Did he make the pipe between the shower control valve and tub spout too short? And it caused the leak?

NO a leak has nothing to do with how high or low the tub spout is. He installed the shower body too low and that caused the problem.

 

[729zoom]

NO a leak has nothing to do with how high or low the tub spout is. He installed the shower body too low and that caused the problem.

When you say shower body, do you mean the shower head at the top? Or do you mean the shower control valve? In my case, my shower valve is 1" too low over the tub spout and trying to figure out if this is the same issue in your case?

 

[John Gayewski]

NO a leak has nothing to do with how high or low the tub spout is. He installed the shower body too low and that caused the problem.

No it didn't. Leaking into the wall has nothing to do with height. The pipes are sealed no matter which way the water travels inside of them it shouldn't leave them until it runs out of the spout or shower head. Water running from the spout should go into the tub. If it's being directed backward into the wall there's either a hole in the pipe or the adapter /spout assembly is causing the water to be directed backward and away from the tub.