PVC fittings glued back to back with no visible nipple(pipe)- Inspector Flagged

[plumb1234]

Hello everyone,

Long time forum reader, This is my first post.

I've been an apprentice plumber for about 3 years, also a licensed building contractor and a degreed engineer.

I've run into a situation on a job, that is really bothering me.

An inspector flagged us, because we had two PVC fittings glued together with no pipe visible between.
(two regular short sweep elbows glued back to back on a 1.5" vent pipe with a 1.5" pipe nipple in-between)

See attached photo.

It is strictly a vent pipe picking up vent from a laundry downstairs.

Inspector says he doesn't know what's in between the fittings, and wrote down that he needs to see pipe visible between the 2 fittings.

This is a very odd correction notice, and the first I've seen in my limited 3 year experience, and the first for my master plumber in his 50 year experience.

We run into many instances with tight spaces that we have to glue multiple fittings back to back, with no visible pipe in-between, just a hub against a hub visible.

The system was holding 5psi pressure throughout the abnormally long 1 hour plumbing inspection for a simple job. When the inspector said "how do i know you just didn't put some primer and glue between the fittings and stuck them together", I got pretty irated, and kicked the pipe and fittings apart to show that they didn't just fall apart, if they were joined without an actual pipe nipple. All the while- the air test pressure holding a solid 5psi.

I'm pretty nerdy, and have read our state's plumbing code book front to back, and have no idea which code it violates.

I would be grateful if any inspectors (or) long-time plumbers here on the fourm can point out to me any code violations (or) objections you may have on having fittings back to back with no pipe visible in-between.

If it is indeed an issue, we would gladly change our practices, and aim to have atleast a 1/4" pipe visible in-between on future projects.

(There is a long back story to this job, we had to request a different inspector. I will post the full details and backstory on follow up replies to the thread if anyone is interested. I'm also planning to contact our state's plumbing board on this matter.

I appreciate this forum's input on this matter.

 

[James Henry]

The inspector is rightfully covering his ass. He doesn't know if the person who installed that is honest. Some inspectors require purple primer so that they can see that primer was used on the pipe. Don't take it personal.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[James Henry]

One last word. If that joint didn't have a piece of pipe in between it and it happened to unknowingly come apart people in the house might get ill from the poopy smell. That's what the inspector is concerned about. I also suggest if you plan on doing a lot of building that you try to not become the inspectors enemy.

 

[John Gayewski]

It doesn't violate a code, but inspectors do have discretion to fail anything they feel could be an issue. They can always be more stringent than the code.

It's a stupid theory that this guy has. I would actually like to try to "buttweld" two fittings like that. Now I'm curious as to if it could hold up for a while and when it would fail.

I think his theory is that someone is trying to trick him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. It would probably be harder to buttweld two fittings like that than it would to just cut a pup piece and glue it normally.

 

[plumb1234]

The inspector is rightfully covering his ass. He doesn't know if the person who installed that is honest. Some inspectors require purple primer so that they can see that primer was used on the pipe. Don't take it personal.

He could see the primer and glue clearly between the two joints. There was probably a 1/16"-1/8" of gap between the fittings.

One last word. If that joint didn't have a piece of pipe in between it and it happened to unknowingly come apart people in the house might get ill from the poopy smell. That's what the inspector is concerned about. I also suggest if you plan on doing a lot of building that you try to not become the inspectors enemy.

It is very unlikely, and was obivous based on the circumstances that the pipe wouldnt come apart: Holding strong pressure throughout the abnormally long 1 hr inspection on the system, and I kicked it pretty hard out of frustation trying to seperate the joints infront of him.
I am, and have always been very mindful of always trying to be on the inspectors' good side. And they are almost always right, with a good reason, when they want a correction. I just say yes Sir/Mam, and do the requested correction. I never argue, nor offer resistance. We know most inspectors in our metropolitan area on a first name basis and vice versa, and have great relation with them. This is the first time in my career that I got irate by the whole situation. (There were multiple other issues with the inspection).

It doesn't violate a code, but inspectors do have discretion to fail anything they feel could be an issue. They can always be more stringent than the code.

It's a stupid theory that this guy has. I would actually like to try to "buttweld" two fittings like that. Now I'm curious as to if it could hold up for a while and when it would fail.

I think his theory is that someone is trying to trick him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me. It would probably be harder to buttweld two fittings like that than it would to just cut a pup piece and glue it normally.

I'm sure it will be very hard to try to buttweld the two hubs together, properly aligned, and it would be a very weak connection. your probably have to hold them together for 10 minutes until the solvent sets. Possibly leaks air during the pressure test, and definitely won't survive a good strong kick.

It just doesn't make sense why he would think somebody is trying to trick him. Like you said, it would be so much simple to just get a nipple and glue it.
It wasn't a really small job either, it was 2 bathrooms, kitchen & laundry, on a split level home. Probably about 80-90 feet of pipe on the whole job with dozens of fittings. He didn't find any issues with the actual plumbing, configuration, or layout. We do professional and clean work. The whole thing seems very silly to me.

 

[James Henry]

You have to think of inspectors like judges. Piss them off by asking for a new inspector, (I'm pretty sure they're going to stick up for each other), and you can expect them to increase your sentence. Behave and get of jail on good behavior. Nobody has ever been criticized for kissing an inspectors ass. You're a grown man you can do what you want just trying to give it a different perspective.
Good luck.

 

[Reach4]

He could see the primer and glue clearly between the two joints. There was probably a 1/16"-1/8" of gap between the fittings.

That seems to contradict what you said in the initial post.

 

[plumb1234]

That seems to contradict what you said in the initial post.

All he could see was the glue and primer in-between. He wanted to see the actual pipe nipple. It was probably more like a 1/16th of an inch gap.

 

[plumb1234]

You have to think of inspectors like judges. Piss them off by asking for a new inspector, (I'm pretty sure they're going to stick up for each other), and you can expect them to increase your sentence. Behave and get of jail on good behavior. Nobody has ever been criticized for kissing an inspectors ass. You're a grown man you can do what you want just trying to give it a different perspective.
Good luck.

I agree with everything you are saying, and that is, and always will be my motto.

This particular situation though was way beyond any normal circumstances.

The first inspector that came out seemed like she was not properly trained/not enough experience. In this particular city, the inspectors inspect framing, plumbing and HVAC. They aren't particularly specialized in a trade.
The first inspector wrote up about 2 full pages of correction notices.
I'll give you one example. The two elbows you see in the first post- she said it's a double elbow during the inspection, and that it can't be used. An actual double elbow is this (see picture):

We never use it, know it's illegal. I don't think I've ever seen one in real life, and I don't think they even stock them here.
I told her that what we have is not a double elbow. She then went to her car for 15 minutes to check on it and some other things. When she came out, she wrote up that the fittings have have been glued together with no pipe visible between, and that needs to be corrected.

After she gave us two full pages of silly (or) inapplicable correction notices, we requested a different inspector, WITHOUT correcting anything. When the second inspector came, he struck off all the correction notices in the 2 pages (all of them were silly).
Except
1.)an overboring of a stud (1.5" trap arm in a 2x4 wall, the 2" hole was drilled 50 years ago when the house was built. They did double up the stud back then. We followed in the same hole with our new pipe.) We agreed to run the kitchen trap arm out of the wall, and inside the cabinets, and replace those affected studs.
2.)The two fittings glued together with no pipe visible in between. When my master plumber was telling him that it's a common practice, and in many instances necessary in tight spaces, he kind of alluded that he was the one who led on the first inspector to write that up. So, he was stubborn about standing on it. We did agree to change it, and glue a longer nipple.