Preventing Build Up in Shower Corners: Installation Tips for NobleSeal CIS

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by johnfrwhipple, Nov 28, 2014.

  1. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    I'm helping out an online client this month in Ontario with a shower design. The design is a large barrier free shower with a custom ACO shower drain. The primary floor waterproofing membrane I had shipped to him directly by Noble Company and we choose NobleSeal CIS because of it's performance ratings and that it can be tied into ACO's primary clamping drain.

    I build my showers a little different and prefer to keep my shower floor membrane in front of the cement board on the walls and not behind. I also don't like the idea of using a paper thin banding material for the corners to prevent build up. Walls and floor move. You need a thicker membrane and need to plan on movement in the design.

    I like a full sheet in the shower. One piece. And folded corners.

    This week I asked my client to read my practice discussion on folding corners and I pooh poohed his wall prep. He missed the 1/4" cement board step. So I gave him two homework projects. One was to remove a triangle in two corners and two to practice his NobleSeal CIS install.

    Here are two photo's showing part of his completed homework.
    NobleSeal CIS Pull Check


    1/4" WonderBoard Lite is test substrate
    The other homework item was installing some 1/4" backer board in the corners where the NobleSeal CIS will be folded. I asked for a level mark be placed around the three walls of the shower 4" above the dry zone. The triangle you see below is roughly 6" wide across the top since we will be installing some Laticrete 3701 as or shower deck mud roughly 2" thick. The triangle allows two layers of membrane with thin-set be recessed flush with the wall. Now we have one ply of material on all three sides and no build up in the corners.


    Progress Photo


    Concept Drawing
    Lots of issues shown in this one picture. Tape needs to be removed. Silicone around perimeter needs to go in. More screws on the plywood subfloor. Missing tape and thin-set on wall outside corner (not seen ion this photo). And the missing recess triangles (shown in concept drawing I sent back). Other photos showed other minor mistakes that we caught and fixed. When chatting and design a shower pictures are king. We can talk and talk but that wastes time and when you see something it makes more sense I think.

    Are you confident about your shower build? Think you did a good job? Post your images here on Terry's site and let some pros have a look. Trust me it can be very humbling to have your work picked apart by your peers.....


    Inside corner detail for NobleSeal CIS

    This shower has solid blocking installed because we planned on this from the start. The backer board is Wonderboard lite. Later the plan is to switch out to Ardex 8+9 for the walls. I do not like membranes thinner than 30 mil's used for a shower floor. I do not like liquid membranes used for a shower floor. I do not like Ardex 8+9 used for a shower floor.

    I like NobleSeal CIS or TS. This shower is using a ACO clamping drain. And an ACO linear drain. If you like the idea of one piece of waterproofing in your shower (you should) then practice at home folding corners. You can use this practice guide I made for a builder up North.


     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  2. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    When I did the corners of the niche using preformed KERDI corners, I ended up having one small bulge so I had to shave a small amount off the backside of a tile. If you fail to plan, you plan to fail. I did plan for the extra thickness but slightly underestimated it.
     
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  4. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Using the grinder is often needed. OK for walls and ceiling points but unsafe for floor tiles.

    I do not like the Kerdi Corners because they are designed for square flat corners. Because a shower should be designed with a slope the corners do not sit that great. When installing them you can do it nicely with Ardex 8+9 as I show case here on a Kerdi Laticrete Hybrid Shower Build.

    It is far stronger and better to use a more premium material like the NobleSeal CIS. In a niche that is not a steamer I love the Ardex 8+9 product and their SK 25 mesh.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 23, 2016
  5. ShowerDude

    ShowerDude Showers

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2014
    Location:
    Minnesota
    this is a great way to help someone "Remotely"

    people get confused with all tbe mixed opinions online, many times by people not in the buisness..

    with Johns service he can give you expert detailed corrected or redlined pics/diagrams and verbal guidance.

    id say worth a fee, but you better build it his way or else!!!! still a tough critic can be good for the novice or ill confident DIY.

    in regards to the cbu work in the corner detail, i will say i dont have a buildup problem in my approach. a bit different than Johns tried and true methods.

    be sure to share your flood test pictures with us? LLgetfa
     
  6. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Around a niche, you can end up with several layers in the corners. I made a few practice templates using heavy building paper so that I would only have to measure and cut the KERDI once. I used a mix of large tiles with bands of small glass tiles and used metal Schluter edge in between them so needed to have perfectly straight and flat transitions. The embedded portion of the metal edge ate up the bit of margin I had and so had to grind some of it down as well.
    [​IMG]
     
  7. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    I used an acrylic base so no flood test.
    [​IMG]
     
  8. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Oh, and the finished detail on the niche. The camera flash does not do the glass tile justice.
    [​IMG]
     
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    I keep my flash off when taking pictures. They turn out much better.

    What is going on with the grout on the glass tile? Is that the flash or do you have whitening around many of the glass tile edges? This is one of my concerns with non-modifed thin-sets and something I have noticed on many kerdi shower builds, my own included. Preventing this is one of the reasons why I switched to more premium setting materials and fully mixing the products.

    I hate working with coloured grout as a rule. I recommend light grey and white to all my clients. When colours are spec'd I like the Laticrete SpectraLock Pro Epoxy grouts for this. And only after an extensive grout prep to remove any thin-set material from the tile edges.
     
  10. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    No problem with the coloured grout, it is the flash. I used Boost grout additive instead of water.
    Also, I used modified thinset just on the glass tile, and unmodified on the large tile.
     
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple BATHROOM DESIGN & BUILD

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Occupation:
    Design Work
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    That's good.

    The double tile trim looks great as an accent.

    Great tile layout and plumbing positioning. Love seeing that.
     
  12. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Occupation:
    Semi-Retired
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
    Thanks. There were two reasons to use the metal edge aside from having an accent. One, I needed to frame out the niche as bullnose was not an option. Two, I wanted a divider between the white and the coloured grout.
     
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