Opinion on expansion tank installation. Picture included.

[Ballvalve]

Sounds like you were just born in the wrong country BallValve....

Most of us just don't want to live in your vision....

That is east LA and perhaps a part of Compton. Maybe Detroit. And they require sprinklers there. I think you should open a plumbing company there and foist a few expansion tanks on the locals.

Tell us how collecting the bill goes.

Be careful what color bandana you wear that day.

 

[Ballvalve]

the odds of a water heater blowing up is probably once every two or three years...in a country of over 210 million poeple

YES it does happen, but your odds are better for you to
hit the power-ball lottery than to have one ever blow up on you

the odds that I have two of them in my front window that blew up is astronomical

basically what I am saying is the things are pretty damn safe.
and they have been safe for decades.....
without the thermal tanks on them.

as far as making fire sprinklers a law for all homes, to save a few lives
that aint ever gonna happen

The voice of reason in an ocean of bone heads.

For the guy that wants to save a life with house sprinklers, wait until he gets the bill for NOT passing flow test, and he needs a 3000 gallon tank and a 3 HP pump installed. Better skip his next car: and that car with all the new air bags is 25,000 times more likely to save him and the kid than 500 miles of sprinkler pipe.

COMMON SENSE - Redwood missed that distribution day before the stork dropped him off.

I got a LOT of family in the last say, 80 years. All over the world. Not one funeral for a water heater bomb, a house fire, or poisoning from a garden hose. But now we all protection from them by LAW - we are criminals without them!

This country is being poisoned by a pack of overeducated and lily white college grads that never got their hands scratched or dirty.

Originally Posted by ballvalve
When one builds a airlliner like a water heater or a submarine, without riveted aluminum sheets, then we wont end up with convertible 737's.

And RW stirs the pot....Yes, of course welds are exempt from metal fatigue...
Welds dont blow at 10 or 20 PSI. Submarines fail when AUXILIARY systems cause it to drop like a rock to beneath its design pressure.

As to the stupidity about stress cracking in your water heater: BS - My air compressor runs between 90 and 175 PSI for 25 years all day, and just loves it. Maybe you would put a expansion tank on it?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[John Vega]

Update: The expansion tank has been removed.
The reason the tank was installed to begin with is because the system was made into a closed system with a check valve try and troubleshoot noise that the sprinkler system was producing on the primary water input line on the home (Sounded like a 3 cylinder motor at times).

80% of the noise went away after the sprinkler contractor moved the primary sprinkler input and backflow valve.
The noise completely went away 100% once the city installed a new water meter (digital).

The system is now open without a check valve or expansion tank like every other home in the neighborhood.

 

[Neanderthal Man]

Oh Darn Bro, You had to open your mouth again...
Folks please excuse Ballvalve when we were much younger our parents moved us into an old uranium mine.
They told him not to go to deep into the mine but he didn't listen.
It seems to be a trait of his...

Anyhow ever since that day his mind has been a little cooked.
You would see better results arguing with a rock.

 

[Cookie]

I sell & appraise homes for a living and, our township started an ordinance several years back; (and we are not the only township), which now states, that when replacing an existing water heater, and/or for new construction, an expansion tank is a must. It left some of the homeowners in a tizzy because of the extra expense and the plumbers unfortunately, shouldered the complaints.

 

[Redwood]

The voice of reason in an ocean of bone heads.

Or, is it a single misinformed plumber that fits your needs?
Answer shopping is alive and well among forum users...
Some even go to multiple forums to shop for answers...
As you read his words he states an expansion tank isn't needed and that is hardly a win for you trying to sell a relief valve...
As for Fire Suppression Sprinklers he doesn't even know what is coming soon...
Yes, Residential Sprinkles are rapidly being adopted by many states all across the country...
They are however very different from what he thinks they are.

For the guy that wants to save a life with house sprinklers, wait until he gets the bill for NOT passing flow test, and he needs a 3000 gallon tank and a 3 HP pump installed. Better skip his next car: and that car with all the new air bags is 25,000 times more likely to save him and the kid than 500 miles of sprinkler pipe.

It's pretty simple Ballvalve, Fire sprinklers do work and they do save lives...

Although it is highly unlikely that you can edumicate yourself... I've enclosed a link below with the data from Scottsdale.
http://www.homefiresprinkler.org/FS/Scottsdale15.html
It's too much to hope for that you would read and comprehend it...
So here is an easy to follow video that might work...

The unsprinklered live burn reaching 1500 degrees in 2 minutes is impressive but if you were in there you would have probably been incapacitated and dying well before the 1 minute mark...

As you were lying on the floor your clothes you were wearing would ignite when flashover occurred...

VS.

The Maximum Temperature of 178 degrees and fire under control with sprinkler activation in 14 seconds.

The New Residential Sprinklers are quite different from your flow tested, dedicated systems with a 3,000 gallon tank and a 3 HP Pump. Maybe you should test your brilliance by reading about them, before you bash them. Maybe read NFPA 13D and gain some knowledge, that would be unique for you considering you shoot from the lip and stick with it. But if you want to remain ignorant continue thinking that the $15K per home figure the Home Builders Association is throwing out there is correct.

The new Residential Fire Sprinkler Standard is actually a system where the slightly larger domestic water supply is looped through the house to supply sprinklers and terminates supplying plumbing fixtures. Using materials such as CPVC and PEX they are far more economical to install than you imagine.

In my 26 years as a firefighter I've seen my fair share of charred bodies, trust me it doesn't seem like a very nice way to go and I bet every one of those fire victims would have loved to have one of todays residential fire suppression systems save their lives as well as their families.

I'll never forget a call for a car fire / car accident we were dispatched to late one night. The vehicle was found by a state police officer and called in by him. The victim was trapped in the car and the police officer was trying to get him out. The victim begged the police officer to shoot him as he was driven back by the heat and gave up on his rescue attempt. The officer was very shaken by that incident as was I.

COMMON SENSE - Redwood missed that distribution day before the stork dropped him off.

I got a LOT of family in the last say, 80 years. All over the world. Not one funeral for a water heater bomb, a house fire, or poisoning from a garden hose. But now we all protection from them by LAW - we are criminals without them!

This country is being poisoned by a pack of overeducated and lily white college grads that never got their hands scratched or dirty.

Oh You are so right Ballvalve...

So many things today are designed to prevent idiots from hurting themselves and others from what they do...

Everything you are being protected from has actually happened.

Obviously common sense alone is in too short a supply so additional help is needed to protect people like you.

Should you muddy the effort by spreading your lack of common sense?

And RW stirs the pot...."Yes, of course welds are exempt from metal fatigue"...
Welds dont blow at 10 or 20 PSI. Submarines fail when AUXILIARY systems cause it to drop like a rock to beneath its design pressure.

So going above pressure and pressure cycling a water heater is a good idea?
I'm not sure what your 10 - 20 psi is coming from I surmise we are back to talking about the jet aircraft again. Go ahead and design a welded aircraft. We'll see how many pressure cycles your design makes it through. I'll put my money on the engineers at Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, Lockheed, Martin Marietta, and AirBus for my ride thanks. You can ride in yours...

As to the stupidity about stress cracking in your water heater: BS - My air compressor runs between 90 and 175 PSI for 25 years all day, and just loves it. Maybe you would put a expansion tank on it?

Water does not compress, Air does compress...
I would hope that you know that...
But, when you are dealing with idyuts take nothing for granted....
Your brother seems to be the smart one in the family...

 

[Redwoodvotesoften1]

The voice of reason in an ocean of bone heads.

Thas Hillarius Rite Thar. U dun reely beleve the poo you spouts off do ya?

Oh Darn Bro, You had to open your mouth again...
Folks please excuse Ballvalve when we were much younger our parents moved us into an old uranium mine.
They told him not to go to deep into the mine but he didn't listen.
It seems to be a trait of his...

Anyhow ever since that day his mind has been a little cooked.
You would see better results arguing with a rock.

Son u sure he ain't been sippin my corn squeezins and got some wet brain goin on.

 

[Neanderthal Man]

Son u sure he ain't been sippin my corn squeezins and got some wet brain goin on.

Anything is possible. But I believe it all goes back to the time we lived in the Abandoned Uranium Mine.
I'm sure he cooked his brain there.

Oh by the way Redwood Thank You for telling me about the handle on the toilet.
It took 3 times but everything went away.

 

[Redwood]

Oh by the way Redwood Thank You for telling me about the handle on the toilet.
It took 3 times but everything went away.

No Problem Neanderthal Man....

I'm always glad to help those who are eager to learn...

It must not be a Toto Toilet that you have...

 

[LLigetfa]

It's pretty simple Ballvalve, Fire sprinklers do work and they do save lives...

Even PVC pipe saves lives. I personally know of two cases where a fire melted the PVC and the resultant water release put out the fire. One was a fire in the basement and the other was a fire in the garbage can under the sink.

 

[Redwood]

That is east LA and perhaps a part of Compton. Maybe Detroit. And they require sprinklers there. I think you should open a plumbing company there and foist a few expansion tanks on the locals.

Tell us how collecting the bill goes.

Be careful what color bandana you wear that day.

I'm sorry to hear that we have lost California to the invading hordes...

But is that any reason for you to want 3rd world plumbing in your home?

 

[Neanderthal Man]

That is east LA and perhaps a part of Compton. Maybe Detroit. And they require sprinklers there. I think you should open a plumbing company there and foist a few expansion tanks on the locals.

Be careful what color bandana you wear that day.

It's almost like when the Cro-Magnon Man came in and took over.
Ballvalve and I are used to adapting to change.
I guess we are lucky that we didn't face extinction.

 

[Gary Swart]

It's unbelievable how this thread keeps going all based on one individuals whacky idea about expansion tanks! Now, I'm not a plumber, not even a "handyman", but when I installed a PRV several years ago, suddenly my T/P began to trip. Not knowing about expansion tanks at the time, I hustled down to Ace Hardware and got a new T/P and installed it. Of course, the new T/P also tripped. After posted my problem on this forum, I had a quick education on expansion tanks. I first went to Lowe's where no one knew what I was talking about. The guy though I wanted a pressure tank for a well or something. Next stop was HD. Bingo, they had expansion tanks in stock. Bought one, took it home, installed it, set the pressure to match the PRV, and the rest is history. No more T/P leaking. Now ballvalve has a whole different idea. All of us with expansion tanks are crazy, because they are unnecessary, don't work, or whatever. No, they do not prevent the tank for exploding, that the job of the T/P if there is a malfunction in the heater. I think it's time to let this thread die!

 

[Cookie]

No offense to the Lowe workers, but, they usually know very little about anything. They are saleclerks, (and if you read one of my threads, you will laugh when I say lowly, salesclerks) that is how I was once described by a boss with issues.

Neo Man, cool fur.

 

[Gary Swart]

You're absolutely right about the sales clerks, but the store didn't even stock them, and I don't think the do now either. I rarely expect much good advice from those people. Mostly it's where can I find a particular thing, not what do I need or how do I use it. In fairness however, I have encountered some very knowledgeable and helpful clerks. Sometimes retired plumbers or electricians.

 

[Neanderthal Man]

Neo Man, cool fur.

Thank You Cookie. It is a buckskin, I'm quite proud of it.
They are tough for us to get, not many hunters with just a stone bladed knife can say the they have gotten one.

 

[Cookie]

Yes, reason being most of the salesclerks there and at HD are just kids. I know one, a friend's son who is graduating high school this month. He's been there 2 years in the paint dept. They are just clerks, maybe to help you find something, but not skilled to offer any advise. If you are lucky enough to get someone retired from an occupation that is a real treat and a rare, find. Someone who knows what you are talking about. It is not the fault of the kids or clerks, they are just doing their jobs, it is not to be expected they know about what an expansion tank does. Most won't even know what one looks like. And, that is okay. Imagine if the kids/clerks know about everything in that big store, why would they be working there at such a young age? They should be out in the field working or having their own business not making miminum wage. Just commonsense. I don't expect much help when I get there, lol, so I bone up on what I need to know, before I enter it.

You're absolutely right about the sales clerks, but the store didn't even stock them, and I don't think the do now either. I rarely expect much good advice from those people. Mostly it's where can I find a particular thing, not what do I need or how do I use it. In fairness however, I have encountered some very knowledgeable and helpful clerks. Sometimes retired plumbers or electricians.

 

[Cookie]

I want one... I like that natural look.

Thank You Cookie. It is a buckskin, I'm quite proud of it.
They are tough for us to get, not many hunters with just a stone bladed knife can say the they have gotten one.

 

[Cookie]

See, I already know, when I replace my 16 year old maybe, older water heater, I will need to put an expansion tank on. No question on that.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

It always amazes me the number of plumbers that argue this issue. The code clearly states that the tank must be installed and furthermore if you take the time to read it, NOWHERE does it say that it's exempt if you are on a private well or a so called open system. We sell tanks. We make PROFIT selling and installing equipment. Put the damn thing in, collect the check and call it a day.