Open electric circuit?

[paulmars]

House built 1954 w/gr ma apartment w/its own breaker box. All original wiring. Fuse boxes replaced with breaker boxes by licensed electrician in 2012.

Three days ago while she used hair dryer in apt bathroom, it stopped. No power at GFCI socket. Breaker did not pop. Also not everything on that circuit stopped working. Just everything on that end of the circuit (bathroom socket and two hardwired ceiling lamps).

The bathroom GFCI socket test and reset switches don't work. Don't know if the GFCI was working or not. Removed it and no power at the bare wires. Both ceiling lamps still not work w/socket removed.

Removed the two wall ceiling lamp switches and looked at the wires, wire nuts, screws and all looked fine. Flipped the breaker back on and tested again. No power at socket and one lamp turned on for less then 1/2 second then went off by itself. Checked and bulb still good. Moved switch and wires to see if it would light again. nope. Turned off breaker and put switches back into wall and wire nutted the exposed socket wires before she got home. Then the two lamps worked and socket wires here hot.WTF?

So, the next day I removed the switches inspected wires and replaced the wire nuts, replaced small wire section, cleaned and re attached wires to switches. Installed non GFCI socket. Both lamps and socket still work. Yea!!!

later that day and the next day lamps still work, socket not tested. next day same, then later that 2nd day, both lamps and socket dead.

All switch and socket boxes in house and apartment are two wire, except as shown below (this is the apartment bath socket and ceiling lamp and its switch). Also, the fridge in the apartment has that 3rd red wire that attaches to the socket box behind the fridge. In the apartment breaker box there is one red wire attached to the neutral bar, as it was in the fuse box.

https://imgur.com/a/GYmuSca

Ideas?

 

[WorthFlorida]

Please use the word outlet, not socket for wall outlets. You may be losing the neutral. There could be another juncture box that you haven’t found that feeds these outlets and lights. Could be in the attic. Do check the outlet for the refrigerator. It maybe a 14-3 and the neutral is shared.

Remove the breaker panel cover and check the hot wire at the breaker that it is tight and insulation shows no sign of burning. Trace the white wire to the ground buss and check for tightness. When switching off the breaker does it feel normal? A clean snap and was never hard to open when you first started working on this problem. Breakers can go bad but generally they burn internally from over heating and not tripping. Running a hair dryer takes s lot of current and a poor connection at the breaker will over heat it.

Do replace the GFCI in the bathroom.

Lately we’re having extremely heavy lightening storms in Florida and something may have burned. The wiring insulation is probably a fabric material (old romex) and mice, rats (in the attic) or ants have chewed away at the insulation. White footed ants love to live inside electrical equipment.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[paulmars]

"Also not everything on that circuit stopped working. Just everything on that end of the circuit (bathroom socket and two hardwired ceiling lamps)."

They come through the central room ceiling light/fan box (which never failed to work). I tried to open that box today. when I new ceiling was installed over the old, it covered that box and two small homes were drilled for the wires. I will need to remove the fan and cut the plywood ceiling where it covers the box to get access.

fridge was 2 wire outlet.

outer is fabric, but white and black wires (red too) look plastic covered and although very stiff, when bent, the 'plastic' does not brake.

Ive done some tracing to try and understand where the hot comes into the bath box and the neutral. It is wired very weirdly. Only had both bath boxes open and after putting back together everything works again. This and what happened before tell me it must be a connection in one of those boxes. However, once or twice I removed and reconnected everything in those boxes to no avail.

 

[paulmars]

I thought I fixed my image once before.

 

[WorthFlorida]

Something is lose somewhere. A sure way is to get a wire tracer. But if you hardly use it is expense, $79. I have a different brand and I was be to trace wires about 6" from the drywall running through the attic. Power must be turned off. It is a low voltage tracer used for data and phone circuits. Disconnect the wire at the breaker to be sure, connect one lead from the tomer to the black wire and the other to ground.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Klein-Tools-Tone-Cube-and-Probe-Plus-Kit-VDV500-808/203015886

 

[paulmars]

how does that work? does it work on intermittent problem?

 

[WorthFlorida]

With no power on the wires the toner is connected at the wire at the outlet or the breaker panel. The toner emits a signal on the wires and the pick up probe detects the signal. It is heard from the built in speaker. You scan the wall or ceiling following the tone, if there is an open somewhere the tone fades away.

google search 200-EP, Greenly is a good one/ There are all kinds of you tubes out there.

 

[paulmars]

ahh ok, now I understand. If I fix the image, its fixed yes, but as soon as I post again, it reverts to the british flag.

tks, might be useful with this old house. Although intermittent could cause me more trouble.

 

[paulmars]

look at my images at that site. from my testing even though i removed the power and common source connection, some if the white wires are still grounded. This wiring is a mess.