(Not a) Gas Line Union Leak

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Geobrick, Mar 3, 2021.

  1. Tuttles Revenge

    Tuttles Revenge In the Trades

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    Oct 15, 2014
    One thing that is silly about locates... is that even if the gas company called for locates in that area.. you still have to call in your own. I think there may be or has been some evolution in that.. We got sued because when we hired a company to bore a line. They called locates for their dig at each end. They did the work.. But we dug a little bit when connecting the lines. Another contractor nowhere near our project down the street messed up a line. The utility company looked at every locate done in the area at the time and sued every one working in a radius.
     
  2. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Geobrick, I was afraid that line might be going to more than one place hopefully problem is close around that meter area. I'm thinking that water and rust be more likely right there . good luck
     
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  3. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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  4. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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  5. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    The technology for gas piping has sure changed over the past 5 decades

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_East_Harlem_gas_explosion



    Department of Buildings Adopts Rule Guiding Inspection of Gas Piping: Section 103-10 to Title 1 of the Rules of New York City
    Posted on September 27th, 2019 | Authors :


    [​IMG]
    On September 13, 2019, the New York City Department of Buildings (DOB) adopted a new Section 103-10 to Title 1 of the Rules of New York City, regarding the periodic inspection of gas piping systems.

    Inspections must be completed by a New York City Licensed Master Plumber, or an individual working under a Licensed Master Plumber, who is satisfactory to the DOB.


    Introduction to Section 103-10 to Title 1 of the Rules of New York City:
    The new rule includes provisions that are intended to give effect to Local Law 152 of 206, which requires periodic inspections of “building gas piping systems.” The gas piping systems referred to are all exposed gas piping from point of entry into the building, but the rule does apply to homes classified as R-3.

    The requirement for inspection does not apply to gas piping within apartments but is applicable to inspection in public areas, hallways, corridors, and mechanical and boiler rooms. For new construction, the new law will not apply until at least 10 years following the completion of such new construction.

    Violation of the new Section 103-10 to Title 1 of the Rules of New York City will subject a non-compliant building owner to fines of up to $10,000 for each instance of violation.

    Immediate Reporting Requirements by the Licensed Master Plumber to the Building Owner, Responsible Utility Company, and the Department of Buildings:
    • Gas leak
    • Illegal connection, or non-code compliant installation
    • Any condition defined as “Class A” by the utility company, which is any imminently dangerous condition
    Reporting Requirements for the Master Licensed Plumber:
    • Submit a certified report to the building owner within 30 days of inspection
    • The building owner must submit the certified report to DOB within 60 days, and no earlier, of the applicable due date for the building in question (as prescribed by the DOB)
    • In the event any conditions were found requiring remediation, the owner must, within 120 days of the applicable due date, submit a certified report that the conditions were remediated. In certain instances, a building owner may have up to 180 days to remediate
    • Building owners must keep inspection reports on file for 10 years
    Gas Piping Inspections to Be Conducted on a Cycle Based on Community Boards Within Each Borough:
    • Between 1/1/2020 and 12/31/2020 and every 4 years, CBs 1, 3, 10 in all Boroughs must have building gas piping systems inspected
    • Between 1/1/2021 and 12/31/2021 and every 4 years, CBs 2, 5, 7, 13, 18 in all Boroughs must have building gas piping systems inspected
    • Between 1/1/2022 and 12/31/2022 and every 4 years, CBs 4, 6, 8, 9, 16 in all Boroughs must have building gas piping systems inspected
    • Between 1/1/2023 and 12/31/2023 and every 4 years, CBs 11, 12, 14, 15, 17 in all Boroughs must have building gas piping systems inspected
     
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  6. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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  7. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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  8. fitter30

    fitter30 Well-Known Member

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    To tighen or loosen a union and it doesn't hurt to put a little never sieze on the threads and face tighten with a hold back then take one wrench hold it tight against nut backside with a hammer sack nut retighten. Hope you valved off all appliances, water heater and furnace 11 lbs will blow the gas regulators diaphragm.
     
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  9. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Is the weld pipe pic a example of good work or poor?
     
  10. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Gas piping that is welded must have every joint X rayed so I guess it is a great welding job as the welders have to be recertified yearly
     
  11. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    function but not so good looking
     
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  12. Paulypfunk

    Paulypfunk In the Trades

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    Seattle
    811 doesn’t usually locate privately installed gas lines. If that is a run from a house to an outbuilding you many have to hire a private locating service.
     
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  13. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    I think the concern is with hitting the gas co line not with locating his pool line
     
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  14. Geobrick

    Geobrick Member

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    Jan 30, 2010
    Location:
    California
    Status Update: I hit a wall.
    I've dug down about 19" so far and what I'm seeing isn't helpful. There's no fitting to inspect down there. The 1.5" pipe is actually curved (maybe with an 18" an 2' radius). It looks like it was custom made at the site to facilitate running the gas under a wall so the connection to the underground line could be more easily done at a location away from the equipment and the wall.

    I'm still going to cap it where it comes out of the ground to verify the leak is underground before calling a pro. The gas company guys really suspect that area but I'm now thinking it's unlikely the leak is related to that underground pipe because the 90 deg bend takes it under a wall where runs under a patio to where it eventually connects to the underground plastic line. The soil is very damp there so it seems they wouldn't be detecting a leak coming from underground two feet down and few feet away under a patio. Hopefully the leak is above ground.

    Here's some pictures showing the bend in the pipe as it heads under the wall foundation.
    The 1st pic is for perspective. The 2nd pic shows the start of the 90 deg bend.
    Pipe-curve-perspctive-IMG_3251.jpg Pipe-curve-IMG_3250.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2021
  15. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    geobrick, pretty common to use factory made sweep fitting so beneath ground the sweep is factory transitioned to PE and its fusion welded . or its what I call a Stab fitting basically similar concept to a sharkbite. Maybe try digging to that one point . assuming all the other joints were soaped up at bbq , fire pit and pool heater.
     
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  16. Geobrick

    Geobrick Member

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    Jan 30, 2010
    Location:
    California
    Unfortunately, I can't dig all the way to where the PE pipe junction. It's much further under the wall and on the other side of the wall is a cement patio.

    I checked all the exposed piping at the bbq and pool heater. I don't have access to the pre-valve piping at the fire pit so I can't check that.

    Is it possible the pressurize air is leaking past the closed valves? The way I'm testing now, I have the gauge on the 3/4" pipe going to the bbq (removed the valve and added the gauge). The valves at the heater, fire pit and pool branch feed are all closed but if air is leaking past these closed valves, I could be losing air pressure without any sign of bubbling. My next test will be to cap the heater line before the valve and cap the pool branch feed at the top of the sweep. Unfortunately I can't do the same at the fire pit because I can't access the pipe going into the valve (but I don't hear a leak there when I pressurize the system to 11 psi).

    What tool do the pros use to find gas leaks under cement patios or grass to avoid having to dig up the whole yard to find the leak?
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2021
  17. Paulypfunk

    Paulypfunk In the Trades

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    Seattle
    You could hire a professional leak detection service to help find it. They have super sensitive sniffer equipment. For underground leaks they can charge the piping with helium that will rise up out to the ground, find it with a helium sniffer. Your paving will likely still be a problem.
    Sounds like you are at the point where you should disconnect all appliances, cap the line downstream of the fixture shut off valves and test again.
    Beware of also having a leak on your test gauge or your air fill valve. You could install a new shut off valve just downstream of the gauge. Then you can close it off and only open it to take your readings.
     
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  18. Geobrick

    Geobrick Member

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    Jan 30, 2010
    Location:
    California
    Thanks. Good advice. I did check the test gauge today with soapy water and it was good (I knew I needed to rule it out as a leak source). I'll do the capping and testing sometime this week and if that fails, I'll find a leak detection service. I've read about the helium and hydrogen sensors so I'll just need to find a service that uses them.
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I had not heard of leak detection using hydrogen, but it makes perfect sense. Much cheaper gas.
     
  20. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Did gas company give a sniff all over? My suggestions been geared toward finding out your self even though efforts have been wasted. Losing 2 pounds an hour from 8 pounds to 6 ? I understand if you're over it. you do have a traser so can hopefully pinpoint the tees , The most suspected place is under the wet dirt at the transition.
    Let us know how the detection comes out should you hire out.
     
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