Newbie DIY Need Advice for Water Storage Setup

[mh1972]

Hi, I've been reading through the forum and understand there are numerous threads about setting up a water storage tank but hope y'all can tolerate another one. From what I've read, I think what I need can be done but just looking for reassurance or additional recommendations. Due to financial stress, I am having to figure out how to get an old well running myself. A little background:

• well is 30+ years old, has been dormant for 10-12 years and has only a small galvanized pipe coming out of the ground
• the pipe is galvanized, rises about 18" above ground with an elbow then a galvanized check valve and a short length of pipe with an open end
• I used a union to connect the galvanized to PVC and connected a 1hp Harbor Freight shallow well pump (30-50psi) and a 20gal pressure tank (set to 28psi)
• have not yet run a line to the "house" yet but installed an outside faucet a few feet away from the pump
• the pump gets to 50psi and shuts off, as expected - btw, the unconnected pvc coming out of the ground in the pic is the original water supply to a house that was torn down a decade ago after a fire
• when connecting a 100' hose to the faucet, water runs for about 3 minutes then the pressure drops to 10psi and pump comes on

I've been told to add a water storage tank (will be approximately 100-200 gal and it will be providing water to an Airstream about 40' away with approximately 1' rise in slope.) I plan to add another 1hp Harbor Freight pump and use the existing pressure tank with it - obviously have to replumb to change all this at which time I will also do a proper gravel pad to level and support everything. Airstream's water inlet has a regulator to limit psi to 50.

Questions
My plan is to keep the existing pump in place to fill the tank from the well and use a float switch in the tank to turn that pump on and off. Will this work? The storage tank cannot be pressurized. Does this mean I need to remove the pressure switch from the pump or is it ok to stay in place? Does anything need to be done to the tank other than the inlet & outlet connections?

Thank you for your assistance!

 

[Reach4]

My plan is to keep the existing pump in place to fill the tank from the well and use a float switch in the tank to turn that pump on and off. Will this work?

Yes.

The storage tank cannot be pressurized. Does this mean I need to remove the pressure switch from the pump or is it ok to stay in place?

With the pump pumping above the tank (best above rather than into the side), the backpressure would probably be low enough that the pressure switch never reaches its cutoff pressure.

Does anything need to be done to the tank other than the inlet & outlet connections?

You would need another pump to get water out of that tank. Shall we discuss that? A nice quiet 2-wire 1/2 hp 10 gpm pump with a flow inducer sleeve could lay horizontally on the bottom of that tank. You would control that pump with a pressure switch, and you would need a pressure tank. Since the one you have now is not needed for filling the atmospheric tank, you could move it. Or you could get another noisy jet pump to supply water to the Airstream.

Hallmark Industries MA0343X-4 uses funny non-standard specs, and is probably usable for this. I presume that you want to keep the amps down so that you don't blow the 30 amp hookup breaker when added to all of the other stuff you do with electric.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...44430533935-c-1489153238829.htm?tid=-1&ipos=4

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...2-hp-10-gpm-series-4-in-submersible-pump-230v

https://www.zoro.com/eco-flo-water-well-submersible-pump-12-hp-2wire-efsub5-122/i/G1242989/

https://www.zoro.com/red-lion-pump-...15v-rl12g05-2w1v/i/G2793292/?recommended=true would be better than the ones before.

There are better pumps, but I was selecting stuff that was lower cost.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[mh1972]

Yes.


With the pump pumping above the tank (best above rather than into the side), the backpressure would probably be low enough that the pressure switch never reaches its cutoff pressure.

Thank you for the response. I apologize for what will probably be dumb follow up questions. When you say "pumping above the tank" is that referring to running the pipe from the pump to higher on the tank (i.e. filling from the top?) Would that be connecting to the upper inlet or dropping the line through the manway? The tank I'm considering has 2 threaded outlets (one high and one low) and an 8" manway.

You would need another pump to get water out of that tank. Shall we discuss that? A nice quiet 2-wire 1/2 hp 10 gpm pump with a flow inducer sleeve could lay horizontally on the bottom of that tank. You would control that pump with a pressure switch, and you would need a pressure tank. Since the one you have now is not needed for filling the atmospheric tank, you could move it. Or you could get another noisy jet pump to supply water to the Airstream.

Hallmark Industries MA0343X-4 uses funny non-standard specs, and is probably usable for this. I presume that you want to keep the amps down so that you don't blow the 30 amp hookup breaker when added to all of the other stuff you do with electric.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...44430533935-c-1489153238829.htm?tid=-1&ipos=4

https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/p...2-hp-10-gpm-series-4-in-submersible-pump-230v

https://www.zoro.com/eco-flo-water-well-submersible-pump-12-hp-2wire-efsub5-122/i/G1242989/

https://www.zoro.com/red-lion-pump-...15v-rl12g05-2w1v/i/G2793292/?recommended=true would be better than the ones before.

There are better pumps, but I was selecting stuff that was lower cost.

I appreciate the recommendations with budget considerations. I already have the second pump ordered from Harbor Freight before seeing your suggestions and it is a shallow well jet pump ($159 with discount.) But, I could consider returning it & getting one of the submersible pumps you listed - likely the least expensive.

Is the main difference between the submersible vs shallow well the level of noise or would there also be a better pressure? The Harbor Freight draws 9a and is rated at 12gpm. The well has it's own power circuit so it won't be an issue with the 30 amp servicing the Airstream. BTW, the well power pole only has a 110v outlet. Do you have any thoughts on the ExtremepowerUS pumps?

Thanks!

 

[Reach4]

Thank you for the response. I apologize for what will probably be dumb follow up questions. When you say "pumping above the tank" is that referring to running the pipe from the pump to higher on the tank (i.e. filling from the top?)

Yes.

Is the main difference between the submersible vs shallow well the level of noise or would there also be a better pressure? The Harbor Freight draws 9a and is rated at 12gpm. The well has it's own power circuit so it won't be an issue with the 30 amp servicing the Airstream. BTW, the well power pole only has a 110v outlet. Do you have any thoughts on the ExtremepowerUS pumps?

Rule of thumb is that a 1/2 hp submersible would give about the same output as a 1 hp jet pump.

Now if you will be running from a 100 amp service, you probably don't really care much about the extra power required by the 1 hp pump. But I am thinking RV places usually only give you 30 or 40 amps at 120 volts.

I appreciate the recommendations with budget considerations. I already have the second pump ordered from Harbor Freight before seeing your suggestions and it is a shallow well jet pump ($159 with discount.) But, I could consider returning it & getting one of the submersible pumps you listed - likely the least expensive.

Do read up on flow inducer sleeves. I think that 1/2 hp halmark might be bigger diameter than your typical 4 inch pump. If you don't have a digital caliper already, pick up one of their 6-inch stainless steel calipers while at HF. Avoid the composite one. https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-digital-caliper-63711.html

 

[mh1972]

Yes.

Rule of thumb is that a 1/2 hp submersible would give about the same output as a 1 hp jet pump.

Now if you will be running from a 100 amp service, you probably don't really care much about the extra power required by the 1 hp pump. But I am thinking RV places usually only give you 30 or 40 amps at 120 volts.

Do read up on flow inducer sleeves. I think that 1/2 hp halmark might be bigger diameter than your typical 4 inch pump. If you don't have a digital caliper already, pick up one of their 6-inch stainless steel calipers while at HF. Avoid the composite one. https://www.harborfreight.com/6-in-digital-caliper-63711.html

I have an acre lot and zoning allows for 60amp service w/o a permanent structure. If the 1/2 hp submersible has a similar output to the 1 hp jet but is quieter, I think I'd rather go for that. Do you know anything about the ExtremepowerUS from HD? That's priced comparable to the jet pump I bought. Reviews are split 50/50 between 1 star and 5 stars. Will read up on the flow inducer sleeve & digital caliper because this is first time I've heard of them. Thank you, again!

 

[Reach4]

I don't know that pump, but the 33 gpm reading is suspect. In pumps, a bigger gpm number is usally cheaper than a lower gpm number, because it has fewer stages, and cannot generate as much pressure. This may be closer to a 15 gpm pump using normal specs. It looks similar to the 1 HP Hallmark.

It is a 1 HP pump. However with 60 amp 240 volt service, you will have 4 x the power available compared to a 30 amp 120 volt campground hookup.

 

[mh1972]

I don't know that pump, but the 33 gpm reading is suspect. In pumps, a bigger gpm number is usally cheaper than a lower gpm number, because it has fewer stages, and cannot generate as much pressure. This may be closer to a 15 gpm pump using normal specs. It looks similar to the 1 HP Hallmark.

It is a 1 HP pump. However with 60 amp 240 volt service, you will have 4 x the power available compared to a 30 amp 120 volt campground hookup.

Ok, I am going to go with the Hallmark 1/2 110v submersible as it has a better warranty and a much bigger database of reviews that are mostly favorable including a number indicating the pump had been working properly for multiple years. In reading about flow inducer sleeves, I understand the concept but have a couple of questions:

• The pump is 29" long & I've read the flow inducer sleeve needs to be 1' taller than the pump
• Is there a minimum head room in the tank needed for the pump? Would a tank with a 58" listed height be OK?

 

[Reach4]

Is there a minimum head room in the tank needed for the pump? Would a tank with a 58" listed height be OK?

You would place the pump horizontally just off of the bottom.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/water-system-questions.82708/

 

[VAWellDriller]

Why complicate things with extra tank / pump? Why not just put a yard hydrant near the Airstream and feed it like you would at an RV park?

 

[mh1972]

Why complicate things with extra tank / pump? Why not just put a yard hydrant near the Airstream and feed it like you would at an RV park?

There's no other structure on the lot with plumbing. I originally wanted to just use one pump & pressure tank with the well but testing it through an outdoor faucet with a 100' hose connected (because I haven't yet trenched to run the supply line) it lost pressure within 3 minutes. The AS will be approximately 40-50' away from the well source. When I consulted with others about what was happening with the pressure, the advice given is it is a low yielding well so it needs storage. I'm assuming a yard hydrant would also need an adequate yield from the source to operate properly? There will be an outlet placed near the Airstream so water isn't running through a 100' hose but the source needs to be able to feed it with adequate pressure.

If I'm missing something or misunderstanding something, please let me know because I'd rather not have the expense of the storage tank and an extra pump. The advice I've been given makes sense. This will be a fulltime arrangement and the plan is to use water supply connected through the AS's city water inlet rather than from its tank. There is a water pump inside the AS but my understanding is it is only used when drawing water from the tank.

 

[VAWellDriller]

Sorry if I missed that part. . If the well is low yielding then yes....you need additional storage tank.

 

[Reach4]

If you hit water with a sand point, you might consider the extra investment in a drilled well with 5 or 6 inch casing. It should not have to be deep to drill. Then you can have a submersible pump that you cannot hear, and avoid the maintenance of an atmospheric tank.

 

[Valveman]

If you have a low producing well it will get pumped dry trying to fill a storage tank as well. Need to address how much the well is making to start with. If it makes sufficient water you only need the one pump as VA suggested. If it doesn't make much water, you need to match the pump to the amount the well will make when pumping to the storage tank, and/or add a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from running dry. Then you will need a booster pump system to draw water from the storage tank and deliver the pressure you need to the camper.

 

[mh1972]

If you have a low producing well it will get pumped dry trying to fill a storage tank as well. Need to address how much the well is making to start with. If it makes sufficient water you only need the one pump as VA suggested. If it doesn't make much water, you need to match the pump to the amount the well will make when pumping to the storage tank, and/or add a Cycle Sensor to protect the pump from running dry. Then you will need a booster pump system to draw water from the storage tank and deliver the pressure you need to the camper.

What was explained to me (before I became aware of this forum) is that I needed a storage tank because there is only the 2" pipe coming up out of the ground. So, I may be using the incorrect verbiage to say it is a low producing well. The well previously serviced a 3br 2ba house that burned downed years ago & was demolished. I don't know how many people were living in the house but I'm assuming the well was sufficient to support them. I don't know what type of pump or tanks they had installed because the only thing left was the galvanized pipe coming up out of the ground and the pvc supply line that ran to the house. The people I bought the property from 5 years ago had bought it from the original owner whose house burned then they never built on it.

I can't afford to hire a well driller so I'm trying to make this work as best as I can with above ground pumps & tanks. Drilling in this area is around $6k. What I'm trying to do will be a little under $1k if it works. I read up on the cycle sensor and it makes a lot of sense but maybe not for my situation. I will be the only person in the AS, just one shower, 2 sinks and a toilet and likely only one source at a time running except for occasional visitors.

 

[mh1972]

If you hit water with a sand point, you might consider the extra investment in a drilled well with 5 or 6 inch casing. It should not have to be deep to drill. Then you can have a submersible pump that you cannot hear, and avoid the maintenance of an atmospheric tank.

If I had the money, I'd prefer to have a drilled well and submersible pump. I can't afford to hire a well driller so I'm trying to make this work as best as I can with above ground pumps & tanks. Drilling in this area is around $6k. What I'm trying to do will be a little under $1k if it works.

 

[Valveman]

Even a well that only makes 1 GPM can supply 1440 gallons per day. You just need a storage tank so you can fill it slow, and use the water at any rate needed in or around the house.