New Toilet Location

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by drury23, Jun 2, 2017.

  1. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    Jun 2, 2017
    Location:
    Upstate NY
    I am doing a large 2nd floor bathroom remodel and the toilet will be in a new location. The main stack in my house goes up vertically from the basement and then goes horizontally in a soffit under the 2nd floor. It then goes vertical and into the attic and out the roof.

    The location of the new toilet is directly (literally) above the horizontal 3" drain. I was hoping to be able to have the 3" toilet drain go down and connect into the horizontal drain below. I have been made aware that there are potentially 2 issues with my plan for the new toilet:

    1) A direct connection from the vertical toilet flange should not be made to the horizontal drain with a sanitary tee. If a direct connection is made, it should be with a tee and 45 angle.

    2) The vent that goes to the attic upstream from the toilet cannot be used as a vent because the horizontal drain also acts as a drain for the 2nd bathroom that is further upstream. This means that a new vent is needed for the toilet.

    So my questions are:

    How can I successfully put the toilet in the new location? Do I need a separate vent for the toilet since the existing vent cannot be considered a vent for the toilet? Can a vent be added down stream of the toilet in the horizontal drain?

    The center of the horizontal drain is 22" from the wall. Therefore, I don't have much room to have a new drain for the toilet connect into the horizontal drain via a wye. I attached pictures. I appreciate all suggestions! Need help! Thanks!

    20170602_093707.jpg 20170525_063821.jpg
     
  2. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Dropping toilet waste on a santee on it's back is a very bad idea.
    I would wye off the line farther down and run a new vent for it. Is there a lav in that room? Often you can use the lav to wet vent the toilet if it's run in 2" the entire way.
     
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  4. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    Do you mean wye from the existing horizontal drain for the vent? And the toilet drain would connect directly to the horizontal drain? Or have its own drain?
     
  5. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    The toilet can't drop into a santee.

    [​IMG]

    This is a basic drawing from the inspectors. What look like santees on the horizontal are eithe wyes or combo fittings. They are pretty rough drawings but they work.

    Wet venting is for bathroom fixtures, and on the same floor.
     
  6. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    What is the best solution for the drain and vent for the new toilet? I understand I cannot use a santee to connect the vertical toilet drain into the existing horizontal drain. I understand that I could use a 1/8 bend and wye to connect the toilet drain to the horizontal drain, but then I'm not sure how or if I could vent the toilet? It is 16" to the nearest wall and I don't think I could have it going 45 degrees upward to the wall. Is it unacceptable to have the vent going horizontally to the wall (or only if it is part of a drain for a lav?)

    The best solution is to somehow connect the toilet directly into the horizontal drain directly below but I'm not sure how you could vent it this way. Is there a way?

    Is my best option to not connect the toilet directly to the horizontal drain but to instead have the toilet go down into a closet bend and then connect into the horizontal drain a couple feet down the line with a wye? And then have a wye off of that drain that is the vent? I'm not sure how to accomplish this given that the new toilet needs to be directly above the existing horizontal drain (or within a couple inches). The best wall for the vent would be the one behind the toilet. I appreciate suggestions with how to best accomplish this! Thanks!
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017
  7. MACODEDOC

    MACODEDOC New Member

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    Massachusetts
    I AGREE WITH TERRY, THE SAN TEE DOES NOT HAVE THE CORRECT PATTERN TO BE LAID ON IT'S BACK . IT WILL HIT THE BACK OF THE TEE BEFORE MAKING THE TURN, WHERE USING WYE AND 45 CREATES A SMOOTH AND DIRECT TURN.

    AS FOR THE VENT

    OPTION 1
    upload_2017-6-4_1-15-22.png

    OPTION 2
    upload_2017-6-4_1-21-57.png

    OPTION 3
    upload_2017-6-4_1-24-22.png

    I HOPE THIS HELPS
     
  8. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    Upstate NY
    Thank you very much for your response. I do agree about not using a santee for the connection into the horizontal drain. I will use a 1/8 bend and then a wye into the horizontal drain. I looked at your diagrams. Options 2 and 3 might not be available to me. The vertical distance from the floor to the horizontal drain is only about 14" so I'm not sure there would be enough room to have a sanitary tee (followed by a 1/8 bend and then wye). For option 2, is the horizontal (flat) venting allowed if there is no lav? I do not have a lav nearby in my bathroom design. For option 1, does it need to be a wet vent? I don't have a lav nearby. Could option 1 instead be a dry vent?

    I created 3 more options. Can you tell me if I could use these options? Thanks.

    Option 4
    Option4.jpg
    Option 5
    Option5.jpg
    Option 6
    Option6.jpg
     
  9. MACODEDOC

    MACODEDOC New Member

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    BOTH OPTION 5 AND 6 WILL WORK
     
  10. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

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    Note, if that line is the vent from below, you need to ensure you maintain it as a vent, or provide a vent. With minor exceptions, once a line becomes a drain, it cannot be a vent.
     
  11. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    For Option 6, it is allowed to have a horizontal/flat section of the vent if it is not going to be part of a lav drain?
     
  12. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    My new plan is to run a new line from the basement that will be the drains for the toilet, tub, and shower. I have good access from the basement to send into an open wall cavity and into the bathroom. I am now wondering the best way to have the toilet, tub, and shower meet into this vertical 3" drain. Based on my diagram, is there a better way? Thank you

    20170608_120616.jpg
     
  13. MACODEDOC

    MACODEDOC New Member

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    where is the vent for the first floor toilet, can you stack vent the upper bathroom with an estabrook.
     
  14. MACODEDOC

    MACODEDOC New Member

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    Location:
    Massachusetts
    upload_2017-6-8_23-3-8.png
     
  15. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    The vent for the 1st floor toilet is wet vented with the lav and goes directly from first floor up into attic.

    As for the Estabrook, is that my best option? They don't seem to sell them too many places, but I could order one online. Here is an example and then at the top I could use a 3x2 reducer to have a 2" vent going up into attic.
    lg_4871.jpg

    If not the Estabrook and I were to have 2 fittings, is this correct (two santees with a reducer between)?
    d59eaf689bf4eb9c7eeb18dba3c63456.jpg

    Your diagram is much better than mine. I updated just to add that the tub will need its own vent since it will be about 13' away from the stack. And also added that the double sink will drain into the new toilet (which is also a wet vent for toilet).
    House.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2017
  16. MACODEDOC

    MACODEDOC New Member

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    YA YOUR PIC WOULD WORK IN JURISDICTION, YOU HAVE 10" CENTER TO CENTER OF TY'S AND YOUR STILL COMMON VENTED. YOUR DOUBLE SINK IS WET VENTING YOUR TOILET IN THE SINGLE LINE SKETCH. AND YOU MIGHT NOT NEED TO INDIVIDUALLY VENT THE TUB NEAR THE SHOWER IF YOU STAY WITHIN A DISTANCE THAT IS GOVERNED IN YOUR CODE. MY CODE ALLOWS 1-1/2"= 5' 2"- 6' 3"- 8' AND 4" 10' DISTANCE FROM THE VENT TO THE FARTHEST TRAPS WEIR
     
  17. drury23

    drury23 New Member

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    Upstate NY
    I'm not sure I understand what you're saying about the 10" center to center of TY's? Also, the tub is going to be about 8'-9' past the shower and will therefore need its own vent.

    The toilet drain will be about 6-8" lower than the tub/shower drain when they meet at the vertical drain. (The toilet drain will be in a soffit under the joists; the tub/shower drain will be within the joists). I'm thinking therefore I will need to use two santees rather than the estabrook. Will this work? Thanks.

    bathPlumbing.jpg
     
  18. MACODEDOC

    MACODEDOC New Member

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    May 28, 2017
    Location:
    Massachusetts
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