New floor under or around new toilet?

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hawaiidisney

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I am in the process of remodeling a bathroom. I am doing the vanity and toilet installation and having a professional install the new vinyl floor. Everything I read says to put the floor down and the toilet on top of the floor. However, the floor installer said to put my toilet in first since I am getting one of the new "floating floor" products. That way I can take the floor up if need be without having to take the toilet up. Is this a good idea?
 

Chassis

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The preferred practice is for the toilet flange to sit on top of the finished floor, whether the floor is wood, vinyl, tile or whatever. This is so the weight of the toilet, and occupant, is supported by the floor and not the pipes.
 

Bob NH

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If the installer tries to cut the "floating floor" material around the toilet, you are almost guaranteed a lousy looking joint.

If you set the toilet on top of the floor, the toilet will close the gap.

The installer must install the floor LEVEL and uniform. When a 24" level is put on the finished floor the bubble should be exactly between the lines and there should be no gaps under the level.
 

Molo

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The installer would have a much easier and quicker install if the toilet isn't down. I also like the idea of having the floating vinyl go all the way up under the flange in hopes that, if someday the unfortunate event of the toilet leaking at the seal occurs, the water will ride out from under the toilet instead of simply soaking into an exposed subfloor plywood material.

Molo
 

hawaiidisney

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Thanks to everyone. I am going to leave the toilet up....plus I don't foresee that I am going to want to take the floor up after it is put down. This "floating" floor is a new concept made by Armstrong. It doesn't get glued down. The only place it is held in place is at the shoe molding and now the toilet but it supposedly doesn't move around at all!. I'll post some pics after the installation on Tuesday if anyone is interested in how this floor looks. Thanks again!
 

hawaiidisney

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I'm not quite sure I understand.....I am a real novice when it comes to flooring but this company is probably the most reputable one in the Hampton Roads area. Do you say I should get a different installer because of the product or because of the salesman suggesting I put the toilet down first? Although the idea of a floating floor sounded strange to me at first, everything I read about it says it is getting more and more popular as people find out about it. If anyone has had experiences with this type of floor, please tell me about them! Thanks
 

TedL

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If in 5 or 10 years you want to replace the floor, how long will it take to pull the toilet? 15 minutes maybe?

Why take the worse appearance to avoid 15 minutes work?
 

Geniescience

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they're both right.

if you ever want to take the floor with you when you leave the place, you can either unbolt the toilet or not, depending on whether or not you put the floor under the toilet edge.

p.s. have you ever walked on a floor made with this stuff?

david
 

hawaiidisney

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No I haven't actually walked on this type of floor. Do you know anything about this type of floor? Am I making a mistake here???? That is why I was hoping someone with experience with this type of floor would post...
 

Plumber1

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There are several reasons to put the floor under the toilet.

If you need to replace the toilet the new toilet would have a different foot print.

The seam where the floor butts up against the toilet would be subject to curling and moisture can get under there.

It's less sanitary

Any plumber or floor covering co. worth their salt should only recommend pulling the toilet.
If they only want your money, they will do the job any old way.
 

Leejosepho

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hawaiidisney said:
No I haven't actually walked on this type of floor. Do you know anything about this type of floor? Am I making a mistake here???? That is why I was hoping someone with experience with this type of floor would post...

I do not have any actual experience with that kind of flooring, but the deal there is that it is supposed to lay flat and not shrink, therefore not needing to be cemented. Having it under the molding around the edges is simply about making the installation look neat and right, and tucking it under the toilet is the same. What you probably ran into there is a salesman who believes an installer can do a fine job cutting and trimming and trimming again around a given fixture, but I believe the installation will be far easier and much better overall if the potty is sitting (with the lid taped down!) in the hallway or tub at the time.
 

Geniescience

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might be millions of sq.ft. of floating floors out there

and you haven't seen it??

Some are glued down after all, while they still call them floating, since they aren't nailed down. It's more solid, less fluffy.

i can't believe you and others in your family aren't insisting on walking on a real live floor installed with this floating laminate.

david
 

hj

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toilet

I do not have time to read all the responses, but will refer to one I looked at today. The customer had a new floating floor installed, and they did go under the toilet. Now she wants to change the toilet and asked if there was any problem. I told he no, since the toilet is on top of the floor. If they had cut around the toilet, there is no way she would ever find another toilet that would fit the opening exactly.
 

hawaiidisney

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In response to the comment by geniescience, I didn't come here looking for shallow criticism. All I asked for was a little help and someone to share their experiences. Whether you can believe that me and my family have never walked on this floor despite there being millions of sq. ft available is irrelevant.......to everyone else who has taken the time to offer assistance, I am grateful and I thank you.
 

Chassis

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I've walked on a few floating floors. IMHO they feel spongy. Probably because subfloors are generally not perfectly flat, and create voids under the flooring. The voids are what feel spongy. The products I have seen are not what I would call the most structurally robust. The sponginess in the floor will almost assuredly cause seepage at the toilet flange.

If it were my project, I would not use this type of flooring in a bathroom. My first choice would be tile, second choice would be solid wood flooring. Vinyl could also be used - the benefit of any of these three choices vs. floating floor is that they are positively affixed to the subfloor.
 

hawaiidisney

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Thanks Chassis, I've pretty much convinced myself that maybe this isn't the best floor for my bathroom.
 

Randyj

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I wouldn't totally rule it out. As you said, it's still new to alot of people. I had one customer complain because her floor had the sponginess to it. But it looked fantastic! One of the really good things about the floating floor is that because the differences in coefficients of expansion you will have fewer problems with it separating in the seams and it will be easier to maintain. Most are basically a plastic material and will not rot and pretty much protect whatever is under it. There's alot of pro's and con's to ANY flooring system. Alot of these floors are sold because of ease of installation...and the materials are quite expensive. I've seen some in high dollar houses that make the house look "techy" but cheap. I've seen others in older homes that make the house look nice, modern, and fancy. Old hardwood floor are notorious for creaking and making noises, tile cracks and the grout stains, vinyl and linoleum wear badly, carpet stains and makes a house have alot of dust and wears badly. None of it is without flaws of some kind.
 
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