Need advice on a tool

[TorontoTim]

Finally got my drain connected, and low and behold, I have the tiniest of leaks around my shower drain housing. It sits in a bead of caulking, and is tightened to the shower pan with a large threaded 'nut' that then presses on a fibre washer and thin foam gasket from below (which doesn't serve any sealing purpose - just holds the drain tight against the shower pan.

Must be a tiny pinhole somehow through the caulking. After a 20 minute shower there is maybe a tablespoon or two of water collected in a catch pan.

So I need to loosen off this nut, which we originally tightened up while the shower pan was still not installed. It is now accessible only through the ceiling, and too tight a space for a large pipe wrench.

The 'nut' is a good 4-5 inches across. Is there something like a really big basin wrench I can use to get up in here? It's spaced between two 16 oc joists, so about 14" total clearence in the area. A little closer to one joist than the other. And it's up in the area of the 3/4 plywood, so something like a basin wrench seems my only hope.

Need to drop the nut off, cut the horizontal drain pipe after the P trap, pull the drain/P up, clean out the old caulking and re-do the drain housing into the pan.

Here's a pic of what I'm up against. Access is through a currently small access hole in the ceiling, which I'll open up a bit for more leverage. Shouldn't need to be terribly tight - just enough to keep it snug. The caulking does the sealing. Would plumbers putty be a better choice? Kohler's instructions call for caulk. Drain is K-9132 if anyone's interested.

 

[JeffH]

One of these

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_... Tools&psid=SHOPPING01&sid=IDx20070921x00003d

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TorontoTim]

Wow - never seen one of those before. I'll do a little hunting. I might be able to use a large pipe wrench in hind-sight. Just don't have one quite big enough for this nut.

 

[Krow]

never, ever use plumbers putty on a fiberglass or acrylic tubs or showers stalls, corion, marble or granite .The oils tend to stain these products turning them yellowish over time

When in doubt, use chaulking

 

[WestcoastPlumber]

I use silicon caulk on fiberglass.

Those drains are horrible, I am a service repair plumber, I remove them all the time for leaks. they tend to loosen up when the pan flexes, which all fiberglass type pans will.

I use Davke Drains, they have a Davke 3000, connects with a N.H, or a 2000, caulk type.

The drain uses the disposal flange principle. http://www.davke.com/

I would take your time and order one of these and install it with silicone. you won't have any problems for years to come.

you will be very glad you did!!

 

[TorontoTim]

Man, that Davke drain is worth the price just for the super-cool special effects in that video

Definitely will look into one of those drains - they look quite nice. But the concept looks remarkably similar to the Kohler unit. What's the difference? Is it the mutliple threaded rods pulling everything together? Or just the build quality etc?

 

[WestcoastPlumber]

Man, that Davke drain is worth the price just for the super-cool special effects in that video

Definitely will look into one of those drains - they look quite nice. But the concept looks remarkably similar to the Kohler unit. What's the difference? Is it the mutliple threaded rods pulling everything together? Or just the build quality etc?

The quality is really good, but the big difference is the that you do not have that big nut to try and turn like on the kohler drain, you have those 4 little screws and they pull the drain tight.

when you turn that big nut on the bottom of the drain you have, the whole body wants to spin.

I install the Davke 3000 with silicone, let it dry for atleast 10 hrs, and thats it. I had a customer who had the same leak every year, year after year, she called me, I installed that and that was it. She was able to close up he cieling and forget about it.

 

[TorontoTim]

So I'm a little confused between the 2000 and 3000. I have a 2" ABS drain pipe to connect to. Which of these two do I order? The 2000 seems closest to what I have, and although it says 'no caulk', in the installation notes (which don't seem specific to either unit) it says to not forget the sealer when installing the drain body into the shower pan. Only difference between the Davke 2000 and my Kohler seems to be the mechanism of keeping the thing sandwiched together tightly for years to come.

Or am I missing something more fundamental? I'd gladly order one, and box my Kohler unit up and mail it back to Kohler with my thanks. I didn't even stop to think that I could order a different drain for use with my Kohler pan. Learning more and more every day.

Oh, and any idea on the ballpark price for these drains? Just so I don't have a heart attack. Need to find one in Canada - will be emailing Davke.

 

[WestcoastPlumber]

So I'm a little confused between the 2000 and 3000. I have a 2" ABS drain pipe to connect to. Which of these two do I order? The 2000 seems closest to what I have, and although it says 'no caulk', in the installation notes (which don't seem specific to either unit) it says to not forget the sealer when installing the drain body into the shower pan. Only difference between the Davke 2000 and my Kohler seems to be the mechanism of keeping the thing sandwiched together tightly for years to come.

Or am I missing something more fundamental? I'd gladly order one, and box my Kohler unit up and mail it back to Kohler with my thanks. I didn't even stop to think that I could order a different drain for use with my Kohler pan. Learning more and more every day.

Oh, and any idea on the ballpark price for these drains? Just so I don't have a heart attack. Need to find one in Canada - will be emailing Davke.

Both will work for your 2" abs, the closest one to your kohler would be the caulk 2000, the pipe slids inside, I like the 3000 because it takes a no hub band to connect the pipe to the drain body, more of a positive seal in my book. But your 2000 with the gasket will work great also.

I am extra protective, at times overboard, but I sleep well at night

The price is very good, at about $70-$80 in my area. Very good considering the expense to remove and repair a leak in a cieling

 

[WestcoastPlumber]

The no-caulk simply means that it uses a no-hub band and you don't have to caulk the gasket in like you do with the other drain, also your kohler drain,the gasket should be caulked in.

the no-hub band is standard 2", since you probably have all your pipe cut already, to the right size, I would just get the 2000. they should just match up perfectly.

 

[TorontoTim]

I'll be calling them in the morning to see where I can snag one. Sadly the Kohler unit cost me $60 as it is. I'll see what I can do about returning it. They've been pretty good from a customer service perspective thus far, and the place I ordered everything from is fantastic - they may be able to help me out with the Davke too.

 

[Mikey]

Make your own wrench

Get a piece of steel pipe the diameter of the nut, cut notches in the end of the pipe to engage the little bumps on the nut, drill a hole through the other end to put a rod through for leverage, and viola! you're done. I can't believe there isn't already a wrench like this out there somewhere.

 

[KD]

How about a piece of 3 inch ABS with notches and a T handle? Easier to cut than steel. Also to cut down on flex in the plastic pans, I set them onto 4 piles of cement mortar on tar paper.

 

[Cass]

While it is unlikly...you may have damaged the showers flange installing the drain. I just read where you used a pipe wrench. If you tightened it to much you may have. You will know when you remove it.

 

[Mikey]

How about a piece of 3 inch ABS with notches and a T handle? Easier to cut than steel.

You also might be able to use a hot nail or something to melt the notches into the pipe. That would work with PVC, don't know about ABS.

OTOH, using a steel pipe, you get to use your plasma cutter .

 

[TorontoTim]

No - didn't use a pipe wrench - just did it by hand. But it was not installed, and there were two of us so it was easy to get a tight fit.

If I don't end up with a new drain altogether, I'll re-tighten by hand again, but will also put some Loctite on the nut so it won't vibrate loose over time.

Oh, and Kohler's installation manual doesn't call for silicone on the gasket. Says to lubricate using a soapy solution and 'carefully press in around the drain pipe'. Let me tell you, there's no pressing this gasket in betweent the drain body and the 2" pipe.

So for this time around, I took a 5 inch long 2" pipe, put the gasket on it, and then lubricated the gasket and drain body with silicone lubricant. Then I was able to press the combined unit into place - took a lot of effort and some banging.

I then had to trim a bit of excess 2" pipe off with my Dremel to make it nice and flush with the top of the gasket material. Beveled the edge of the drain pipe while I was at it so there is no ledge. It's tight as a drum - it's the caulking between the chrome drain body and the shower pan that's a problem now.

I'm going to loosen off the nut, push the drain up (may be enough play in the drain pipe to allow it to go up an inch or so), clean out the caulking with some DAP caulking remover, dry the area out completely and re-caulk. Then I'll snug the nut up again with Loctite.

In the meantime though, I am going to look into the Davke drain with the no-hub coupling. It would seem that it would eliminate the need for the hole gasket nonsense, which is the toughest part of the install.

 

[TorontoTim]

BTW - my mention of a pipe wrench was to loosen the nut, not tighten it. I know the caulking is doing the work, not the metal drain body being cinched against the fiberglass pan, so it doesn't need to be wrench-tight.

Kohler's installation manual leaves a lot to be desired - no detail at all on how tight to make it, whether to use a wrench or not etc.

 

[TorontoTim]

Spoke with Mike about his Davke drains - great guy. $54.50 + shipping for the no-hub drain, which seems like a much better way to install than using one of those gaskets and having to pound things into place.

Definitely under consideration. Going to call my plumbing supply place and tell them I want my $57 back for this Kohler unit.

Of course, the Davke drain isn't as 'pretty' as the Kohler, but the wife will just have to live with it.

 

[Verdeboy]

Pasco makes a locknut wrench for fiberglass tub and shower drains. It may work in your case.

 

[TorontoTim]

I think if I just give it a few love taps with a wooden dowel on one of those tabs it will loosen up enough. Don't want to go in there with any pointy steel tools that could damage the pan. I'll do the same to snug it back up, or I may just bite the bullet and order the Davke drain and leave it till then.

Took two showers yesterday and not a drop came out, so it's fine for a little while longer.