Low HW pressure on Tankless System

[GMrules]

Well, I finished the de-scaling with very limited success, I did not get chance to head over to SAMs to get larger vinegar so I used CLR as recommended by Nortiz

I ran it 50 mins and only helped little bit. Was so disappointed

I will head over to SAMs and get the vinegar and heat it as BOBH suggested

its a little better no where near normal

 

[Bob NH]

CLR is a fairly dilute solution of 15 to 20% lactic acid and 2 to 4% gluconic acid. See the MSDS at the link below.

http://www.hescoinc.com/Msds/comcl4.pdf

They are both pretty mild acids and one of the most significant aspects of CLR is that it is unlikely to hurt you.

Gluconic acid: http://www.jungbunzlauer.com/produc...onates/gluconic-acid/general-information.html

Lactic Acid: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-lacticac.html

CLR is expensive for the amount of acid that you get. I would use hot vinegar because I know it will work. If I knew that the heat exchanger was stainless steel I might use about a 5% solution of muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid).

http://www.improvingyourworld.com/home/how_to_get_rid_of_hard_water_build_up_000482.html

 

[Sponsor]

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

No one cared to answer my queston...

perhaps it was s stupid one, perhaps not.....


How long a process is this and how or when do
you know that you are back to 98% eff again??

. But I've got a Zoeller dewatering pump, hoses, bucket, and a bottle of CLR ready to go when the first call comes. I figure it should take about an hour w/a little travel time added in

I'd have to say 1/2 to an hour, depending on water content & length of time from last flush.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Hey I got my answer......thanks Grumpy

Sorry Mark

According to Nortiz 45 mins you need to circulate the solution

I was expecting a more experienced person to answer

You really cut me deep.....dude......deeeeeeeeep.....



But this is not my frist trip to the Rodeo, .............

http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/houseofhorrors/

I have thrown out tankless units that were totally
limed up over the years,
because they were never de-limed ......

its only been a long time since the last one I tangled with....



anyway, now you know what a long painstakeing affair it can be to

actually service one by finding out for yourself...




SRDENNY......
I wonder what you would have charged to get yourself
into a day long event like this??

what is the min. you woulld touch it for??





perhaps you ought to let the CLR sit in the system
overnight and see if it works its majic...

if that dont work then you got big troubles...





So Grumpy, if the unit has been de-limed every 6 months,
a half hour is a goood rule to go by..................

if it has been longer, you could get yourself into troubles...

 

[GMrules]

heating the vinegar as I write this

should have listened to u in the first place

my bad

ty for taking time to help me

 

[GMrules]

Just finished not much better

do not understand

any other ideas?

 

[Bob NH]

Do you have or can you install a pressure gauge on the inlet and outlet sides of the water heater so you can know how much loss there is, and compare it with the rating from the manufacturer? You would need to know the pressure difference and the GPM for that condition.

Have you checked to verify that there are no screens or valves anywhere in the system? Some of those heaters have a control that limits the flow if the water is not up to temperature.

 

[GMrules]

I have on pressure gauge

i can measure it as I put in bolier drain to flush

 

[GMrules]

I can get static pressure

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

Aaaaannndd??

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

just let it sit overnight

as a last ditch effort.....

just let the CLR sit overnight in the unit....


just out of curousity , have you tried to simply blow

air through that exchanger and see what happens???


what kind of resistance you get......

static pressure dont mean a thing,

it will lbuild up pressure on the guage


its the flow, flow , flow ...so you got to blow,

through the exchanger you want to get a handle on

whats going on inside that exchanger.......


just put your mouth on the end of the
pretty brass pipe and blow....

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

I've said this before, Mark...you ain't right.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Pressure guage ?

Honestly Grumpy,

didnt you ever "siphon gas " out of a car before
when you were a teenager??

wouldent just blowing air through the
damn thing tell you all you need to know
about obstructioins in that exchanger???
------------------------------------------------------

If useing your mouth makes you nervous,

and it reminds you of being pulled over by the cops and
having to take a breathelyzer test....

or whatever else you can think of ................

then just go get an air compressor .....


because that air resistance
is gonna tell you wether you have freed up
system or not..

If the job is done right,
the air should just pass through it freely,
like when it is new.

wouldent you think??.

-----------------------------------------------------------


also on another note, -- to cover your ass,---
when you sell these things
to the public, do you ever mention something about
de-limeing them every 6 months or so ???

Have you ever thought of selling a bi-yearly
maintiance agreement to the customer for $195 ?


if for no other reason than make them aware of this
situation??

 

[Redwood]

Have you been through the winter with this unit before? If so how was its performance then? Could it be Undersized? Where are you located?

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

Actually it occured to me afterwards that Mark, and Redwood right above, have a good point.
You might try running it while it's off and see if the same flow dilemma occurs.
If not, then you either have a defective/clogged flow restrictor or flow sensor.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

flow sensor .... restirctor...

I wonder Grumpy if these parts should be taken out
of the unit BEFORE you run CLR through it???


what does the manuel say...???

 

[GrumpyPlumber]

I wonder Grumpy if these parts should be taken out
of the unit BEFORE you run CLR through it???


what does the manuel say...???

You or I could do a websearch and review the manual, but I doubt it.
The fact that they say use CLR surprized me though.

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

This is criticle .....need to know....information

I suppose that would be

"criticle..... need to know..... information"

something you should be keenley sure of
before you go screwing up someones 1200 dollar
tankless unit.......


We have not heard back from this fellow ---so

in my humble opinion.......

delimeing these things appears to be a pistol to
tackle

and it would seem wise to take out any
internal parts that might get com-pro-mised
(screwed up) by the vinegar or more
toxic substances you throw through it

maybe it is not necessary to do...but if it is
that could be another difficult project in itself


I doubt that CLR is too wise unless the people
at the tech suport say its ok....

muratic acid is certianly out of the question
when you dont know how tough the flow sensor
or other parts are .....




I have a Nortiz 6.9 unit in my shop new in the box
I will look at the specs tomorrow....

all I know about the Nortiz uint is that if you
do not de-lime the unit quarterly it voids the
lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger....

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

Its been too quiet ..no responce

I am very curiouis as to how this thing
has all played out.....


their has been no responce for days and I am beginning
to wonder

did this fellow win, lose or,,, draw...



with the ones I ever stumbled upon.....
usually the wife was already so
irate about the cold showers that they were ready to
tear the thing out and install a 50 gal gas unit...



I am getting the feeling that he is mad at me...





inquireing minds want to know...

 

[Master Plumber Mark]

GMRULES.. did you ever get it fixed??

Still waiting on a reply......

did you get that puppy working right??

or have you thrown in the towell??

please give everyone an update on what has transpired....