Low HW pressure on Tankless System

Discussion in 'Tankless Water Heater Forum' started by gmrules, Dec 28, 2007.

  1. gmrules

    gmrules Member

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    Well, I finished the de-scaling with very limited success, I did not get chance to head over to SAMs to get larger vinegar so I used CLR as recommended by Nortiz

    I ran it 50 mins and only helped little bit. Was so disappointed

    I will head over to SAMs and get the vinegar and heat it as BOBH suggested

    its a little better no where near normal
     
  2. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    CLR is a fairly dilute solution of 15 to 20% lactic acid and 2 to 4% gluconic acid. See the MSDS at the link below.

    http://www.hescoinc.com/Msds/comcl4.pdf

    They are both pretty mild acids and one of the most significant aspects of CLR is that it is unlikely to hurt you.

    Gluconic acid: http://www.jungbunzlauer.com/produc...onates/gluconic-acid/general-information.html

    Lactic Acid: http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-lacticac.html

    CLR is expensive for the amount of acid that you get. I would use hot vinegar because I know it will work. If I knew that the heat exchanger was stainless steel I might use about a 5% solution of muriatic acid (hydrochloric acid).

    http://www.improvingyourworld.com/home/how_to_get_rid_of_hard_water_build_up_000482.html
     
  3. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    I'd have to say 1/2 to an hour, depending on water content & length of time from last flush.
     
  4. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Hey I got my answer......thanks Grumpy


    You really cut me deep.....dude......deeeeeeeeep.....



    But this is not my frist trip to the Rodeo, .............

    http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/houseofhorrors/

    I have thrown out tankless units that were totally
    limed up over the years,
    because they were never de-limed ......

    its only been a long time since the last one I tangled with....



    anyway, now you know what a long painstakeing affair it can be to

    actually service one by finding out for yourself...




    SRDENNY......
    I wonder what you would have charged to get yourself
    into a day long event like this??

    what is the min. you woulld touch it for??





    perhaps you ought to let the CLR sit in the system
    overnight and see if it works its majic...

    if that dont work then you got big troubles...





    So Grumpy, if the unit has been de-limed every 6 months,
    a half hour is a goood rule to go by..................

    if it has been longer, you could get yourself into troubles...
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2008
  5. gmrules

    gmrules Member

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    heating the vinegar as I write this

    should have listened to u in the first place :)

    my bad

    ty for taking time to help me
     
  6. gmrules

    gmrules Member

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    Just finished not much better :confused::(

    do not understand

    any other ideas?
     
  7. Bob NH

    Bob NH In the Trades

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    Do you have or can you install a pressure gauge on the inlet and outlet sides of the water heater so you can know how much loss there is, and compare it with the rating from the manufacturer? You would need to know the pressure difference and the GPM for that condition.

    Have you checked to verify that there are no screens or valves anywhere in the system? Some of those heaters have a control that limits the flow if the water is not up to temperature.
     
  8. gmrules

    gmrules Member

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    I have on pressure gauge

    i can measure it as I put in bolier drain to flush
     
  9. gmrules

    gmrules Member

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    I can get static pressure
     
  10. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    Aaaaannndd??
     
  11. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    just let it sit overnight

    as a last ditch effort.....

    just let the CLR sit overnight in the unit....


    just out of curousity , have you tried to simply blow

    air through that exchanger and see what happens???


    what kind of resistance you get......

    static pressure dont mean a thing,

    it will lbuild up pressure on the guage


    its the flow, flow , flow ...so you got to blow,

    through the exchanger you want to get a handle on

    whats going on inside that exchanger.......


    just put your mouth on the end of the
    pretty brass pipe and blow....
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  12. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    I've said this before, Mark...you ain't right.
     
  13. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Pressure guage ?

    Honestly Grumpy,

    didnt you ever "siphon gas " out of a car before
    when you were a teenager??

    wouldent just blowing air through the
    damn thing tell you all you need to know
    about obstructioins in that exchanger???
    ------------------------------------------------------

    If useing your mouth makes you nervous,

    and it reminds you of being pulled over by the cops and
    having to take a breathelyzer test....

    or whatever else you can think of ................

    then just go get an air compressor .....


    because that air resistance
    is gonna tell you wether you have freed up
    system or not..

    If the job is done right,
    the air should just pass through it freely,
    like when it is new.

    wouldent you think??.

    -----------------------------------------------------------


    also on another note, -- to cover your ass,---
    when you sell these things
    to the public, do you ever mention something about
    de-limeing them every 6 months or so ???

    Have you ever thought of selling a bi-yearly
    maintiance agreement to the customer for $195 ?


    if for no other reason than make them aware of this
    situation??
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  14. Redwood

    Redwood Master Plumber

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    Have you been through the winter with this unit before? If so how was its performance then? Could it be Undersized? Where are you located?
     
  15. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    Actually it occured to me afterwards that Mark, and Redwood right above, have a good point.
    You might try running it while it's off and see if the same flow dilemma occurs.
    If not, then you either have a defective/clogged flow restrictor or flow sensor.
     
  16. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    flow sensor .... restirctor...

    I wonder Grumpy if these parts should be taken out
    of the unit BEFORE you run CLR through it???


    what does the manuel say...???
     
  17. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

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    You or I could do a websearch and review the manual, but I doubt it.
    The fact that they say use CLR surprized me though.
     
  18. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    This is criticle .....need to know....information

    I suppose that would be

    "criticle..... need to know..... information"

    something you should be keenley sure of
    before you go screwing up someones 1200 dollar
    tankless unit.......


    We have not heard back from this fellow ---so

    in my humble opinion.......

    delimeing these things appears to be a pistol to
    tackle

    and it would seem wise to take out any
    internal parts that might get com-pro-mised
    (screwed up) by the vinegar or more
    toxic substances you throw through it

    maybe it is not necessary to do...but if it is
    that could be another difficult project in itself


    I doubt that CLR is too wise unless the people
    at the tech suport say its ok....

    muratic acid is certianly out of the question
    when you dont know how tough the flow sensor
    or other parts are .....




    I have a Nortiz 6.9 unit in my shop new in the box
    I will look at the specs tomorrow....

    all I know about the Nortiz uint is that if you
    do not de-lime the unit quarterly it voids the
    lifetime warranty on the heat exchanger....
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2008
  19. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    Its been too quiet ..no responce

    I am very curiouis as to how this thing
    has all played out.....


    their has been no responce for days and I am beginning
    to wonder

    did this fellow win, lose or,,, draw...



    with the ones I ever stumbled upon.....
    usually the wife was already so
    irate about the cold showers that they were ready to
    tear the thing out and install a 50 gal gas unit...



    I am getting the feeling that he is mad at me...





    inquireing minds want to know...
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2008
  20. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls

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    GMRULES.. did you ever get it fixed??

    Still waiting on a reply......

    did you get that puppy working right??

    or have you thrown in the towell??

    please give everyone an update on what has transpired....
     
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