LOT of iron 3 years after new well. Want to install my CSV.

Discussion in 'Pumps and Tanks Well Forum & Blog. Water is life.' started by rmgolob, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    I don't think even the smaller zone was open if you melted the pump. Most likely the pump was pumping zero flow to melt like that. It only takes about 2/10's of a GPM to keep a pump cool. Less than 2/10's of a GPM will melt the impeller. For that reason the CSV cannot close to less than 1 GPM. Your pump will never get hot with a CSV maintaining a minimum of 1 GPM of cool water passing through.
     
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    A flow inducer sleeve on a submersible pump will maximize cooling to the motor. That would be most important for a lake or a top-feeding well.
     
  3. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Like Reach says. 2/10's of a GPM is enough to keep a submersible motor cool, but it has to go past the motor before entering the pump to do so. That is what a flow inducer or shroud does.
     
  4. taylorjm

    taylorjm Active Member

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    What about the people that have the common top feeding well pump?
     
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Are you referring to an above-ground suction pump?

    Or are you referring to a submersible pump where the water comes into the well largely from above the pump? If that, then a flow inducer is most recommended. If that top feeding well is not big enough for a flow inducer on a "4 inch" pump, you could put a flow inducer on a 3 inch SQ pump I think.

    A flow inducer also helps with pumps that are not fully cased in that the turbulence near the pump intake won't be by the well bore, and that sediment from above will probably not get sucked in.
     
  6. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    In areas where a top feeding well is common, a flow inducer or shroud will also be common. Can't have the former without the later.
     
  7. taylorjm

    taylorjm Active Member

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    I'm talking about people that have an above ground pump pulling water from an underground well. The pump isn't surrounded by anything but air. If your pump is capable of pumping 20gpm, and you restrict it down to 1-2gpm, what's to stop the pump head from overheating due to a low flow?
     
  8. taylorjm

    taylorjm Active Member

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    I was there, and I'm familiar with pumps enough to know what happened. With one zone open and 4 sprinkler heads, the pump head overheated and melted. 2hp, 25gpm well pump.
     
  9. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    A jet pump has a fan and is air cooled. Only the impeller in the pump needs cooling, and that doesn't take very much flow. Deadheading is Zero Flow. 1 GPM is not deadheading and is 5 times more than needed to keep the pump cool. Again, the CSV just cannot close to less than 1 GPM. If you are not using any water the 1 GPM goes into the pressure tank until the pump shuts off. But with a CSV there is no condition where the pump can be deadheaded.
     
  10. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Not possible! Even one sprinkler head running is more than enough to keep the pump cool.
     
  11. taylorjm

    taylorjm Active Member

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    Good luck to you.
     
  12. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    I could help you figure out why your pump really failed if you want? But it wasn't from a lack of flow while running 4 sprinklers. Lol! Your big tank was probably running those 4 sprinklers long enough for the pump to melt from zero flow to the pressure tank.
     
  13. taylorjm

    taylorjm Active Member

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    No pressure tank, but I'm good, thank you.
     
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Pressure relief sounds like a good idea.
     
  15. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Then you are still missing something because it doesn't take much flow to keep a pump cool. The impeller doesn't touch anything to cause heat or friction. Just an impeller spinning in cool lubricant. It even takes a while to get a pump hot enough to melt an impeller when completely deadheaded. Only tested this a few hundred thousand times in the last 50 years. Here is a picture of a couple 250HP turbine pumps we tested at 5 GPM without causing any heat. These pumps could run a couple thousand sprinklers and they would still stay cool and last forever running just 2 sprinklers. So no way a jet pump gets hot with 4 sprinklers worth of water flowing through it?

    Central Texas cropped.jpg
     
  16. valveman

    valveman Cary Austin Staff Member

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    Jet pumps don't usually build enough pressure to work with a pressure relief valve. If max pressure of a jet pump is say 67 PSI, it will still work with a 40/60 switch, but not a 75 PSI pressure relief valve. The biggest problem with a pump start relay (no pressure tank/switch) is the pump is told to come on but the sprinklers don't pop up. There are lots of melted impellers caused by this problem. But if a small zone is open or if there is even 2/10's of a GPM leaking, the impeller will not melt down.
     
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Are you talking about a jet pump?
     
  18. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    @valveman
    @Reach4
    @Bannerman
    @Sarg
    (Anyone else I missed)

    Thanks all for the help.
    Here is a pic of my final (almost) installation.
    (I will create a new thread to ask about threaded PVS joint leaks.)

    And of course, please feel free to point out any areas of concern.

    CSV Installation.jpg
     
  19. Sarg

    Sarg Enjoy Learning

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    Very clean ........ nice job.
     
  20. rmgolob

    rmgolob Member

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    Thank you!
     
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