LOT of iron 3 years after new well. Want to install my CSV.

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Rmgolob

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You guys helped me 3 years ago when my well gave out.

At that time I purchased a PV1A system but did not install it because the pump change "stirred up" the iron in the well (And I procrastinate...)

In a thread back then, Valveman posted:
"The CSV1A is designed to handle dirt and iron. Iron and dirt doesn't hurt the CSV1A anymore than it will hurt the pump, check valve, pressure switch nipple, etc. And if the CSV1A becomes clogged with iron like a check valve does, it can easily be taken apart and cleaned."

However, I figured I'd wait until the water "cleaned up."

That has not happened.
Attached are pictures showing:
1. Filter prior to well swap - Changed every 3-4 months or longer.
2. Filter since well swap - Must be changed about monthly.
3. Close up.

Questions:
Can I install the CSV1A (same as a PV1A, correct?)
Do I still install the CSV first in line in the house (Before whole house filter and softener?)
Anything else I need to do / know?

Upon answering this part, I will get to the softener and drinkability of the water next.
(The water tastes horrible)

THANK YOU in advance.
IMG_4216 (1).jpg IMG_4217 (1).jpg IMG_4218 (1).jpg
 

Rmgolob

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Adding details:
Myers 1.5 HP, 2 wire, 20 GPM.
Replaced a Grundfos 3/4 HP, 10 GPM.
Pump hanging from 60 ft PVC and water level is about 10-12 feet over that.
Picture of current set up.
IMG_4215 (1).jpg
 

Valveman

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Yes the CSV1A that comes in the PK1A complete kit can handle stuff like that. It may need cleaning occasionally if the iron is also clogging check valves and other things. But it is easy to clean. Sorry you haven't got it cleaned up yet. Have you tried developing the well by pumping it hard for long periods of time? You might also look into shocking the well with Chlorine.
 

Taylorjm

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How big is that filter? It's hard to tell by the pictures if it's a 4.5x10 or 2.5x10? That's a lot of iron. Hard to believe that just changing the pump would cause that much of a change.
 

Taylorjm

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So what is the purpose of the csv valve in this case? I see you have a storage tank, I assume that's a bladder tank so that should help keep the pump from cycling on and off as much. So what will the csv valve accomplish?
 

Reach4

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That filter looks awkward to change. Some 10x4.5 filters can accept a 20x4.5 sump replacement, but that would make the sump twice as heavy when you change filters. The upside is twice the capacity.
 

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So what is the purpose of the csv valve in this case? I see you have a storage tank, I assume that's a bladder tank so that should help keep the pump from cycling on and off as much. So what will the csv valve accomplish?

The CSV allows use of a much smaller pressure tank, eliminates water hammer, check valve, pressure switch, tank bladder, and start cap damage, as well as making the pump last longer. But the main benefit of a CSV is strong constant 50 PSI instead of sometimes 40, sometimes 60, and always seeing the pressure changing from one extreme to the other.
 

Taylorjm

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The CSV allows use of a much smaller pressure tank, eliminates water hammer, check valve, pressure switch, tank bladder, and start cap damage, as well as making the pump last longer. But the main benefit of a CSV is strong constant 50 PSI instead of sometimes 40, sometimes 60, and always seeing the pressure changing from one extreme to the other.

Are they mainly used in the above ground pumps verses the submersible well pumps? I have a submersible pump and don't see any of the issues you describe and unless it's built into the pump somehow, we don't have a csv.
 

Valveman

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Most people have just gotten use to the 40/60 swing in pressure. Many times when the pump is cycling on and off the pressure just seems low, and you don't know that is because it is cycling between 40 and 60 over and over. I love the reaction of people on systems like this after installing a CSV. NOW they see strong constant pressure for the first time and finally realize how bad their pressure has been all the years past. :)
 

Rmgolob

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@valveman:
Have you tried developing the well by pumping it hard for long periods of time?
Only at the original install. Ran it for a day or 2.

You might also look into shocking the well with Chlorine.
Simply pouring chlorine down hole? I know that sanitizes, but didn't know it has effect on iron.
For our EasySet pool, we used a chelating agent.
 

Rmgolob

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@taylorjm
How big is that filter? It's hard to tell by the pictures if it's a 4.5x10 or 2.5x10? That's a lot of iron. Hard to believe that just changing the pump would cause that much of a change.
It's a 2.5x10. 5 microns
That is the ONLY thing that changed. The first pic is that last filter with old pump and they have been "red" ever since.
 

Rmgolob

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@Reach4
That filter looks awkward to change. Some 10x4.5 filters can accept a 20x4.5 sump replacement, but that would make the sump twice as heavy when you change filters. The upside is twice the capacity.
Its VERY easy to change. Spin off. Replace. Spin on. Perhaps I'm missing what you are saying.
It's a 10x2.5. Where does "sump" come into play.
 

Reach4

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Simply pouring chlorine down hole? I know that sanitizes, but didn't know it has effect on iron.
For our EasySet pool, we used a chelating agent.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ is my sanitizing write-up.

How long the sanitizing will knock down the IRB, I don't know. The flooding volume should help make the effect last longer. Still, I don't know how that will affect your water. I would pick a nice couple of days that you can work outside intermittently, not freeze the water, and you can do without water.

I ran my recirculating water through a filter, because I had one available.

Also flush the pressure tank periodically. Turn off the pump, isolate the house plumbing with the valve, and drain the pressure tank through a hose on the drain valve. Turn the pump back on. Repeat until you don't get rust getting washed out.

Since you are asking a water softener to remove iron, expect to give that more cleanings. Expect to treat you softener resin with Iron Out or citric acid to rejuvenate it. https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/garys-trick-and-how-effective-is-iron-out.47363/ is an old thread that may help you. Iron Out and Super Iron Out are the same thing. https://www.menards.com/main/housew...mover-9-5-lb/io10n/p-1444444183163-c-7097.htm IO does not smell good, but it is effective. Citric acid smells much better. That is the main additive in the iron-handling softener salts.

IO10N.jpg
 
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Taylorjm

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@Reach4
That filter looks awkward to change. Some 10x4.5 filters can accept a 20x4.5 sump replacement, but that would make the sump twice as heavy when you change filters. The upside is twice the capacity.
Its VERY easy to change. Spin off. Replace. Spin on. Perhaps I'm missing what you are saying.
It's a 10x2.5. Where does "sump" come into play.


I didn't think sanitizing a well would have any effect on the iron content. But hey, I've been wrong before! The "sump" is the bottom half of your filter housing. He's saying that your 2.5x10 filter housing may possible accept a 2.5x20 new bottom housing (sump) and you could use the longer filters. It has more sq in and therefore more capacity and wouldn't clog as quickly. It won't change the amount of iron, it will just let you go longer between filter changes.
 

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I am not much of a chemist. But I believe Chlorine is an oxidizer, which is what works on the iron. I have had wells where we installed a device that drops a chlorine pellet down the well every time the pressure switch makes contact. I have also heard of people who just occasionally shock the well with chlorine.

I would for sure get rid of that tank. Those kind of tanks are good about having a broken bladder and still working fairly well. However, the crud that can build up behind a broken bladder is amazing. The crud usually comes out really bad when you shut off the pump and drain the tank completely.
 

Rmgolob

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@valveman
So bottom line is that I can install the CSV now?
Then the worst I have is the same iron issue but have the well system working properly?
I have been keeping the pressure at 35 as to not over cycle the pump.
It will be awesome to have 60 or so psi!!!

If so, I will do that now. Then I will get a water test and begin the process of making Dasani water at home.....
 

Valveman

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@valveman
So bottom line is that I can install the CSV now?
Then the worst I have is the same iron issue but have the well system working properly?
I have been keeping the pressure at 35 as to not over cycle the pump.
It will be awesome to have 60 or so psi!!!

If so, I will do that now. Then I will get a water test and begin the process of making Dasani water at home.....
Yes. But I would certainly inspect and clean that tank while you have the line cut. I am afraid a lot of your problem could be coming from that tank.
 

Rmgolob

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@valveman
Well.... After 4 years (and despite my ambitious comments above) I 'm finally installing the PK1.
Current set up to which I will add the CSV pictures below.

1. No check valve between the well and the CSV, correct?
2. Can I / Should I put a sample port between the well and the CSV for future water sampling?
3. You mention above
"It may need cleaning occasionally if the iron is also clogging check valves and other things. But it is easy to clean. "
Easy, OK - But how?
Do I add some unions or quick connects to be able to remove the CSV?
4. Anything else I need to Know.

Thank you in advance

New set up 2.jpg
New set up.jpg
 

Reach4

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2. Can I / Should I put a sample port between the well and the CSV for future water sampling?
You can. It will also mount a GHT pressure gauge in case you are curious.

Seems to me that you could run a utility pump in a Homer bucket, and flow an Iron Out solution thru the CSV and other stuff.

Citric acid smells better, but a 152 ounce container of IO goes a long way and is effective. The smell is not that bad IMO, but others find it worse than I do. Vinegar works too. IO is good for cleaning the softener resin.
 

Bannerman

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1. No check valve between the well and the CSV, correct?
Correct. The check valve is already located at/in your submersible pump.

Should I put a sample port between the well and the CSV for future water sampling?
Be aware the water flowing from that faucet before the CSV is likely to be much higher in pressure than you are accustomed to.

Easy, OK - But how?
I think he was referring to cleaning the pressure tank. When using a small tank, it is easy to remove to clean the opening. If you wish to flush it with water, you may need to visit a neighbor.

To flush the check valve, turn off the pump and disconnect the line prior to the CSV to connect a length of large diameter tubing out to the yard to allow the pump to operate unrestricted until sediment is pumped out and the discharge runs clear.
 
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