Layout lines on Ditra

[Eurob]

Those slip joints will be happy to have the Kerdi Flex.

 

[Jadnashua]

There's a MAJOR difference between an expansion joint IN a slab (where KerdiFlex is called for) and one in the TILE, where you'd use your own expansion joint, whether engineered, or something like a urethane caulk. So, yes, you are not reading the thing correctly. And, I think you probably know that, and are just being a PITA.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

Since when is a seam between the waterproofing sheets an expansion joint? How would you use Kerdi Flex over a tile expansion joint in a field? An expansion joint in the field is to protect the tile from tenting - it gives them room to expand and contract. If you actually happen to have a slab expansion joint, then you'd put KerdiFlex over it, AND put an expansion joint IN the tile field. But, as any so-called tiling 'pro' would know, they are not the same thing, and one IN the tile field does not mean you have or need one UNDER the tile.

What I'm saying, is you are intentionally confusing the issue, which is your norm, just to try to try to discredit anything said. If anyone with reasonable reading comprehension and integrity is reading this, I think they see right through you.

If this is truly confusing to you, I feel sorry for your customers.

 

[Jadnashua]

I'll go with the document and make sure to use Kerdi-Flex over any new expansion gaps going forward. Over concrete board.

Feel free to use KerdiFlex there if you want to, but you know it is not the proper use of it...it will maintain the waterproof seam, though. The seam in a concrete board is NOT an expansion joint, and is intentionally covered with a reinforcing alkali resistant tape to PREVENT it from moving (or, a sheet membrane, which performs the same purpose). But, if your reading comprehension is so poor, and your construction knowledge is so sparse that you don't know the difference between an expansion joint in a slab and a seam in cbu, I wonder how you have stayed in business so long.

And, they call for KerdiFlex over an expansion joint (in a slab)...if you misconstrue that with an expansion joint in the field of tile, how would you install KerdiFlex OVER that joint?

More of John trying to spread doubt, and to discredit, and disrespect others...a truly great way to impress future customers.

Did the pictures help you understand what Pita was?

Sorry John, I've known what pita is for a long time, as well as PITA.

 

[Eurob]

Layout lines on Ditra .

No unmods used -- to adhere or prefill Ditra -- , no 33% maximum allowed deviation -- brick pattern -- , ..........in one word




No recommendations followed .

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

LOL - You are such a bad ass Roberto. What are you trying to do? Feed your kids.....

I think Jim has left the building.....

Breath in the

FRESH AIR

 

[Jadnashua]

Layout lines on Ditra .

No unmods used -- to adhere or prefill Ditra -- , no 33% maximum allowed deviation -- brick pattern -- , ..........in one word




No recommendations followed .

Over plywood, a modified IS specified to embed the membrane to the subflooring.

The industry recommendation is on larger tile like shown, to use a 1/3rd offset. It's not that you can't use a 1/2 offset, it's that most (certainly not all) tile have some bow to them - some of them at the limit, especially on longer tile can be quite tall (the allowance is a percentage of the length - that bow can be larger in real distance, the larger the tile and still be within industry standards - there's some pressure to change that spec, but for now, that's what we have). If you install many of them at a 50% offset, that's putting the highest point of the tile (the middle) next to the lowest point of the next one (it's end), and that can exhibit some pretty nasty lippage that may be at least partly masked by a large grout joint (most people want a small grout joint, and then lippage is more of an issue). If your tile are in the minority, and are quite flat, then you can successfully install them at any offset you want and achieve an acceptable outcome.

FWIW, if the subflooring is prepped properly, it has nothing to do with what you tile on, an uncoupling mat or cbu, or even directly to the plywood. Nobody said you couldn't prefill the membrane. It could open the install up for dirt and a bad bond if the tile don't get installed in short order. A rapid setting modified would not pose a problem with potential drying, and, if asked, Schluter will allow it. A 'normal' modified is more risky, and would not be warranted.

So, know the risks, understand the consequences, evaluate your materials, and keep in mind that the industry standards are a recommendation and a basis to judge the final outcome (as opposed to a manufacturer's requirements if you want a warranty). The combination of the industry standards and the manufacturer's instructions have your best interests in mind...a successful, reliable, long-term installation. Deviation from that could (certainly can't say will) cause issues with those goals - just understand what you're doing, and what your materials are, and what you expect from the job.

 

[Eurob]

LOL - You are such a bad ass Roberto. What are you trying to do? Feed your kids.....

I think Jim has left the building.....

Breath in the

FRESH AIR

Who , me ?

I was trying to add an example of layout lines on Ditra -- as per OP' thread name -- , since it lacks any pictures of it after 14 pages .......instead I've got another lecture from the OP ......did I miss something ?

I guess , after all , I should let this one -- thread -- sink to the bottom of the barrel ......what is recommended in this case ?

 

[Eurob]

Approved........!!!

Thanks ....

 

[Jadnashua]

Don't take this as personal...it looks like a nice install. Many DIY'ers, seeing an example like shown, might take it as something that always works. Many tile are not flat enough to do what you showed. So, a little discussion on why seems appropriate. This forum is keyed to a DIY'er...some things a pro can do in his sleep, a DIY'er may never be able to duplicate, but some are very talented, but will just take longer to achieve it. An example showing exceptions without explanation is a recipe for disappointment.

 

[Eurob]

Don't take this as personal...it looks like a nice install. Many DIY'ers, seeing an example like shown, might take it as something that always works. Many tile are not flat enough to do what you showed. So, a little discussion on why seems appropriate. This forum is keyed to a DIY'er...some things a pro can do in his sleep, a DIY'er may never be able to duplicate, but some are very talented, but will just take longer to achieve it. An example showing exceptions without explanation is a recipe for disappointment.

It seems that you will never get it .

A little from the real world ......if you need a specific design , you look for the tiles that can accomplish it . You don't quote standards and lecture clients -- including DIYers -- on recommendations and standards .

Tomorrow , some pics of the knee pads , for a change ..... but then again -- more of the above -- the DIYer will never invest in such a pads , why to explore it ?


Damn , this thread is just proving more of the conclusions already reached .

 

[Jadnashua]

You guys just don't get it either...there's a reason why they don't recommend that offset. If you really want it, certainly, if you can find a tile that is flat enough, it will work. Someone looking at that could easily believe that that would work with their tile...remember, a DIY'er may never have even set tile before...sees that, buys some tile, tries it and it looks like crap. So, like I said, a pro can do some things in their sleep a DIY'er may never be able to accomplish, would know that, and, seeing an example of a setting not recommended by the industry without the admonition that the tile must be very flat to work (and what to look for), would buy a tile that he liked, but may never work well at that offset.

So, where in the discussion was that brought out? Only when I mentioned it. Something a DIY'er can now become aware of. Something a pro would likely know...helping the DIY'er, not killing the messenger. Knowing something can be done, without knowing all of the required prerequisites, is a recipe for disaster for a DIY'er. IOW, if you're going to use an example, and it doesn't conform to industry guidelines, explain what it takes to make it work. Otherwise, you're not helping.

 

[ShowerDude]

Dead end.....cul de sac

Roberto .......dead end cul de sac ? or ........ Circles in a fishbowl......
A cul de sac we can simply drive away!!!!

Feels more like circles in a fishbowl when Jims around

 

[Eurob]

You running duelling lasers?



By not helping Jim means you are not helping him sell Ditra. Hope this ..

No lasers John , just the layout lines on Ditra -- prefilled --.

I will let You deal with the rest .

 

[Jadnashua]

You guys just don't get it...you show something that does not match up with industry guidelines without explaining what has to be done to make it work, and I mention it, and you jump all over me. The industry guidelines do not recommend a 50% offset on tile that big. It can work IF you are careful about finding a very flat tile. Most of them would produce a poor result (thus, the recommendation)- it doesn't matter what you've got underneath it. I know this, you pros probably do, but the average DIY'er that looks at this, sees it as an example of how to lay those larger tile, and tries it without knowing about the flatness requirement, and it looks like crap. You aren't doing him any favors UNLESS you explain. All I did was explain why it's not recommended, and said if you find a tile flat enough, you can set it any way you want, and it can come out well.

FWIW, that comment had nothing to do with a particular product, only an industry guideline.

Until you guys realize the DIY'er nature of this forum, you may be creating more problems than you're solving. If you show something that is different than the industry or manufacture's guidelines, explain why, and if there's something special that needs to be done to make it work, say so. Otherwise, people may take that as a general 'it always works' guideline, and that isn't true.

And, again, there's no reason why you can't prefill Ditra, or Strata_Mat, or any of the other similar materials. But, you want to then get your tile on it before it gets a chance to get all dirty or contaminated with something. If you have some extra thinset at the end of a job, and have Ditra already installed on the floor, when your thinset is about shot or you want to stop for the day, instead of throwing it away, use up what's left and pre-fill an area. But, it's not required.

And, John, if you want to use a chalk line over virgin Ditra, it won't stay unless you do something. A laser works fine, if you happen to have one. Hairspray works fine, and is a lot cheaper. If you understand what an uncoupling mat is and how it works, you'd understand that that will have absolutely no effect on its operation. And, you'd probably pick that tip up if you took one of their workshops. Feel free to call them, and they'll tell you it works fine, too. Or, if you know your local rep, talk to him. Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it right, just like bashing something that is right does not make it wrong. Grow up.

 

[ShowerDude]

Strata mat has arrived and my knees like it better than orange waffles

 

[Jadnashua]

If you want the floor to end up waterproof, be prepared for the expense of using a second layer. Otherwise, a good product, and suitable for many situations. Time will tell how well it performs, but the concept is fine and from a reputable company.

 

[Eurob]

You guys just don't get it...you show something that does not match up with industry guidelines without explaining what has to be done to make it work, and I mention it, and you jump all over me. The industry guidelines do not recommend a 50% offset on tile that big. It can work IF you are careful about finding a very flat tile. Most of them would produce a poor result (thus, the recommendation)- it doesn't matter what you've got underneath it. I know this, you pros probably do, but the average DIY'er that looks at this, sees it as an example of how to lay those larger tile, and tries it without knowing about the flatness requirement, and it looks like crap. You aren't doing him any favors UNLESS you explain. All I did was explain why it's not recommended, and said if you find a tile flat enough, you can set it any way you want, and it can come out well.

FWIW, that comment had nothing to do with a particular product, only an industry guideline.

Until you guys realize the DIY'er nature of this forum, you may be creating more problems than you're solving. If you show something that is different than the industry or manufacture's guidelines, explain why, and if there's something special that needs to be done to make it work, say so. Otherwise, people may take that as a general 'it always works' guideline, and that isn't true.

And, again, there's no reason why you can't prefill Ditra, or Strata_Mat, or any of the other similar materials. But, you want to then get your tile on it before it gets a chance to get all dirty or contaminated with something. If you have some extra thinset at the end of a job, and have Ditra already installed on the floor, when your thinset is about shot or you want to stop for the day, instead of throwing it away, use up what's left and pre-fill an area. But, it's not required.

And, John, if you want to use a chalk line over virgin Ditra, it won't stay unless you do something. A laser works fine, if you happen to have one. Hairspray works fine, and is a lot cheaper. If you understand what an uncoupling mat is and how it works, you'd understand that that will have absolutely no effect on its operation. And, you'd probably pick that tip up if you took one of their workshops. Feel free to call them, and they'll tell you it works fine, too. Or, if you know your local rep, talk to him. Repeating something that is wrong doesn't make it right, just like bashing something that is right does not make it wrong. Grow up.

My helper can't take it anymore .......... he doesn't understand one word you are saying.




Hey John , get yourself a laser man .....LOL