Kenmore Softener worked for 2 years, now salt tank full of water

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rkhanso

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In installed the kenmore softener new a couple years ago. It replaced an older Kenmore softener. I stuck with Kenmore since the shutoff/connections are the same from the old to the new for an easy install. It's been working great until recently. I noticed the salt tank full of water.
Yes, I've looked online for solutions and checked the venturi parts (clean, no obstructions). I took the draw thingy in the tube in the salt tank out and checked it - didn't find any gunk.

When in brine/drain mode, the water level does go down very slowly. A slow stream of water comes out of the drain line.
In backwash mode, a strong stream comes out of the drain line.
Fast rinse mode there also a strong flow out of the drain hose.

The drain hose is longer than suggested in the manual but has worked for years for 2 softeners that were/are installed. The drain is vinyl hose about 25 -30 feet long. When the softener is finished cycling, there is still water in the drain hose, and I wondered if this was a problem. But after reading that the hose can go up to 8' higher than the softener, overhead in a ceiling, thought that it must be OK if there's still water in the hose when it's finished....and assumed then, that the softener can push that water out when the next regeneration cycle starts up again.

I'm not sure what else to check on this. Left on it's own, the water level will get up past the #7 line on the salt level sticker. Even the overflow line can get plugged up and the water level is higher than the overflow. So....maybe the drain and overflow lines are the problem? But how can that be if I see water coming out during operation of the softener in manual mode?

I was thinking about switching to PVC drain and overflow lines, though that will be hard to install (blind, under stairs on the way to the drain). And if that's not the problem, why even bother.

Suggestions?
 
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Reach4

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I don't know your softener. I am not a pro. I have not done anything with a cabinet softener.

I think you are saying that the brine tank water level drains down during the brine cycle.

Some softeners refill the brine tank to a measured level at the end of the regen cycle. Some do it at the beginning.

What I suspect you may be seeing is a slow rise in level in the brine tank between regenerations. That would be because of a leaky seal or piston. If there is a rebuild kit, that might fix things.

It may be time to replace that softener with a similar unit for another 10 years of service. You might consider replacing the unit with a non-cabinet softener if you have the room. Those are usually better and definitely easy to work on.
 

rkhanso

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I don't know if it drains all the way down.

Yesterday, I manually pulled water out of the salt tank as far as I could reach - there was probably 8-10" of water left (no salt). I added 100lb of salt yesterday and set it to recharge last night. Today, I see the salt level between the 3 and 4, with about 1" of water over the salt. Is it possible that it's somehow slow-leaking water into the salt tank when it's in service mode? You mentioned a leaky seal or piston. I suppose - maybe. I'll check it later today to see if the water level keeps rising.

This softener is only 2 years old. The old one that it replaced was at least 15 years old. They are very similar softeners.

I wouldn't say this isn't easy to work on. I'm just stumped at why it fills up with water.
 

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I found the leak. The water inlet, where the bypass valve goes into the softener is leaking. I suppose I'll have to replace the o-ring. Hopefully there's no cracks in the plastic.
Have to figure out the procedure to take that apart...
 

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I had some spare o-rings from when I installed the softener and put them in (yes, I put silicone grease on them before putting them in). Still leaks on just that one side. I hope the body is not cracked. The water appears to be dripping from between the male/female parts. I wonder I might just need a bit thicker O-ring.

Not a great video, but maybe you can see it.
 

Reach4

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Nice short video.

If the lines are flex, it would be interesting if you could swap them. Ideally the leak will switch sides, and you will know where the problem is.

Incidentally, people can run for years with softeners plumbed in backwards. Performance drops off some, but not a lot. Just a factoid that does not help your situation.
 

rkhanso

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Hard copper. That would be a good test though.
No larger than 1/8" thick o-rings at the local big-box store.
Home Depot has 3/16" thick available via online order
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Crown-Bolt-1-3-8-in-x-1-in-x-3-16-in-Buna-Rubber-O-Ring-85278/203574597

I can't get it to stop dripping with a 1/8" o-ring. I was able to get it to drip a little less though. I hope a 3/16" will fit.

I think there was a little downward pressure on the bypass valve from the PEX coming in from overhead. I pulled that back a bit and the bypass is sitting in a little straighter now. But I'm not sure it was really off enough to be the cause of the problem.

I suppose adding caulk or that graphite or teflon length of stuff to take up a bit more space is not a viable solution.
 
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Old

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I have seen several of these crack on both the bypass and valve side of the in/out connections. Usually due to unsupported plumbing pulling down on the bypass. Remove the bypass and check closely for cracks, they are often hard to see. From my experience it's typically on the bypass near the groove that holds the o-ring.
 

Old

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You can add a couple wraps of teflon tape in the groove that holds the o-ring, then put the o-ring on top of the teflon. It would be worth a shot. With a new properly sized o-ring and proper alignment of the bypass (plumbing not pushing down or pulling up) it should seal with no problem though.
 

Reach4

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I have seen several of these crack on both the bypass and valve side of the in/out connections. Usually due to unsupported plumbing pulling down on the bypass. Remove the bypass and check closely for cracks, they are often hard to see. From my experience it's typically on the bypass near the groove that holds the o-ring.
Taking the stress off would be an advantage to corrugated coupling lines.

A cracked bypass sounds cheaper to replace than some other things.

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/kenmore-350-water-softener-leaking-at-o-ring.35884/ agrees with old.
 
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