Iron bacteria

[Kelvin Rempel]

I’ve been having Iron Bacteria issues for years now. I had a Novo 465-100 chem free iron filter installed 4 years ago. I was told it would get rid of my Iron bacteria and iron issues. Unfortunately this was not the case. I have a drilled well 325’ deep. The iron filter gets clogged with bacteria after about 3 months or so. My plan now is to get a chlorine injection pump and plumb it before the pressure tank. I have a 20 gallon pressure tank, is it possible to use that as the contact tank? Or do I need a separate contact tank? I was planning on having the iron filter plumbed after the pressure tank or contact tank. Would I also need a carbon filter in this type of setup to get rid of the chlorine residual or would the iron filter be able to get rid of that? The main media in the Iron filter is calcium carbonate.

I usually shock my well once or twice a year and it really doesn’t help much with the iron bacteria, this entire area has very heavy iron bacteria levels. We have a creek that runs beside our house that has huge amounts of slimy iron deposits in it all year round.

I’ve attached the water test results that I received from the last plumber that installed my NOVO system. Any help would be appreciated.

Kelvin

 

[Reach4]

The main media in the Iron filter is calcium carbonate.

That does not sound right at all. If that were the case, I would expect your iron filter to be ineffective. OK, I just looked up that number. That is a 1 cubic ft softener. To use a softener for iron removal, you need a lot of extra cleaning, and you should be adding acid one way or another to the brine tank. Give your softener iron-handling salt and/or use a Res-Up or ResCare feeder. Expect to do some cleaning in the future without an iron filter. Search out old posts in the softener forum that mentions "iron out"

I usually shock my well once or twice a year and it really doesn’t help much with the iron bacteria, this entire area has very heavy iron bacteria levels. We have a creek that runs beside our house that has huge amounts of slimy iron deposits in it all year round.

Is your well pretty is deep, and it should not be affected by what goes on a the surface

I presume you have some benefit for a while after sanitizing. If so, and if you have a deep well, I would suggest you try this on your next sanitizing: https://terrylove.com/forums/index....izing-extra-attention-to-4-inch-casing.65845/ The thinking is that by knocking down the bacteria more effectilely, it will not be growing back so soon.

 

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[Ryan Symons]

You do not want to inject chlorine before the pressure tank. The chlorine will shorten the life of the tank and it isn't nearly enough contact time anyway. As a general rule you want 20 minutes. Inject after the pressure tank into a holding tank. You will need a dechlorinator afterwards to filter the solids and remove the chlorine that is left (you want 1-3 ppm) on the outlet side of the retention tank.
A properly set softener will take out 1ppm of iron with no problem though iron out does help.

 

[Kelvin Rempel]

Thanks for the reply’s. The 465 is an Iron Filter not a softener and yes I thought it was odd that it uses Calcium carbonate as well. I’ve done the deep well cleaning procedure with the vinegar and bleach already. It doesn’t last long before the bacteria comes back. I’ve got access to a 120 gallon holding tank that I can use, I’ll plan to put it in after the pressure tank. Maybe I need a different brand of Iron Filter as well that uses Birm or something..

 

[Ryan Symons]

You won't need an iron filter. Just carbon and a softener will do the job

 

[Reach4]

I’ve done the deep well cleaning procedure with the vinegar and bleach already.

I think the flooding volume is also an important part of that to drive the chlorine and vinegar to the bottom of the well and into the nearby water strata. More is better.

Injecting chlorine after the pressure tank will work if you have a proportional pump and a sensor to control the injection rate. If you just control the chlorine injection with the pressure switch, you need to inject before the pressure tank, and expect the pressure tank to deal with it.

Expect to drain out rust after the injection from the pressure tank or holding tank.

The more contact time, the less chlorine you need. A proper 120 gallon pressurized contact tank would be nice. They often have a blowdown valve to make washing out the precipitated iron easy.

And then, as Ryan suggests, a GAC tank can take out the residual chlorine. You would like to have a 2 to 4 ppm residual chlorine into the GAC tank, I think.

 

[Kelvin Rempel]

Is there any consensus on what is better for chlorinating the water? An injection pump or an inline pellet system?

 

[Reach4]

Is there any consensus on what is better for chlorinating the water? An injection pump or an inline pellet system?

WellMate Micronizer is another alternative.

I think the pellet system leaves the precipitate in the well and can be harder on the pump and steel casing.

 

[ditttohead]

Proper injection is far better than pellet chlorinators. We sell both but the pellets are typically uncontrolled no matter what the paperwork says. We see wild fluctuations in the chlorine residual with pellet systems. They should also be installed before the bladder tank.. not typically the best idea. Avoid the low cost junk injectors, stick with a decent name brand. I would also recommend a peristaltic design over a diaphragm, Do not use a water drive design, the high iron levels will foul up the motor mechanism quickly.

Here is a short article on the pros/cons of different pump designs. https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/148-149

I would highly recommend a baffled contact tank vs. a standard. With iron bacteria you will want a considerably longer contact time than just iron.

 

[GTOwagon]

Proper injection is far better than pellet chlorinators. We sell both but the pellets are typically uncontrolled no matter what the paperwork says. We see wild fluctuations in the chlorine residual with pellet systems. They should also be installed before the bladder tank.. not typically the best idea. Avoid the low cost junk injectors, stick with a decent name brand. I would also recommend a peristaltic design over a diaphragm, Do not use a water drive design, the high iron levels will foul up the motor mechanism quickly.

Here is a short article on the pros/cons of different pump designs. https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/148-149

I would highly recommend a baffled contact tank vs. a standard. With iron bacteria you will want a considerably longer contact time than just iron.

Two contact tanks is better than one, in series, longer contact time for a larger amount of water during heavy use, plus double settling capacity before the water reaches the backwashing filters.

 

[ditttohead]

Sort of... the contact tanks are simple math equations. Two small would be about the same as a single... it has to do with dwell time, flows, velocities and much more. The baffled design allows for a coded 4x rating so a 80 gallon tank would be similar to a 320 gallon tank. Here is a good video on the baffled tank design.

 

[GTOwagon]

If you are drawing large amounts of water over a short span of time, you would have more of your chlorinated water in contact with chlorine over a longer time with a second tank in series or parallel. I currently have a single 120 gallon tank. A second 120 gallon tank in series would ensure longer contact time with my water for a larger amount of the water. Why series? ...using the tank drains to drain off sludge on the bottom, the water coming out of the second tank would be cleaner than the water exiting the first tank. A third tank would produce even cleaner water coming off the top. Etc etc.

I am not saying that it is necessary for the average user as I myself do not have two tanks yet. I consider it a luxury, but when I have the spare coin, and I already have the space (probably more of a consideration for most folks) it is on my list to do in the future.

 

[ditttohead]

Is your tank baffled? The certifiations are impressive and well documented. By redirecting the water it eliminates the "channeling" effect. A smaller tank with baffling is far more effective than a non baffled tank.

 

[GTOwagon]

It is but if you draw huge amounts of water off, there I will no substitute for having a larger amount of water fully contacted for a larger period of time. This is what my wife told me who is an organic chemist (PhD Carnegie Mellon) as she explained that the larger amount you hold in contact, the harder it I see to throw it our of whack. Or to get it drawn down so fast that the bacteria survives. She says a persistent bacteria like IRB or SRB is even more important to do this with. She maintains that a similar effect is found for instance in a swimming pool, where when you have a larger pool rather than a smaller pool, the levels are harder to throw out of whack by a weather event or a leak or something that reduces the full body or the composition of. Or consider the ocean if you want to go to extremes, which you cannot easily disturb the PH levels or chemical composition. A small bucket of water I see easily changed. Two buckets are harder to change. A 55 gallon drum harder still. A tanker truck, very difficult to change and so on. Having more "contacted" water is a plus even if you have a mixer and baffles, or whatever nice device that assist you mix the chlorine and the raw water. So perhaps a baffled first tank and less expensive second tank might work well. Again, it is a luxury but any non mechanical way of helping your water when you have IRB would be good and worthwhile. In her opinion.

 

[ditttohead]

Agreed, sort of. In higher flow applications the non baffled tanks perform even less than when they are used under low flow applications. The water will "Channel" rather than mix in the tank. This is why we prefer the baffled tanks and this is why the certifications are there.

With a 0.6 baffle factor, as tested by the Water Quality Association test labs, it also takes up less space because one tank does the work of 3 normal tanks.

Under our testing these have been very effective but... under heavy iron loads the baffeled areas can become fouled if not purged regularly.

 

[WellOff]

I talked to my lab in the past about iron and IRB and they said that IRB will mask their readings for iron: or something similar to that. (horse's mouth, not mine- I'm not associated with a lab, not a chemist or in any way a water specialist/professional) Not sure how much, but would assume that actual iron levels would be higher than tested with IRB still present. Of course, this is for untreated; treated, if effective, will kill the IRB and free up the iron for proper removal: my output tests have always showed that iron is essentially non-detectable.