Iron and Manganese removal with Katalox

[Rotaris]

High folks,
Just tore apart a 5 year old air injection water filter for the first time in 5 years and have some questions regarding cleaning and operation.
It is 10x54 Iron pure filter with 4 button clack. Has 1.5 cubic ft of Katalox. Air injection
I am not sure of gravel contents because I purchased ready to install.
Please forgive my ignorance, I am New to this stuff.
It has seemed to work ok, not perfect but ok. I am just thinking that the media might be shot, do to duration it has been in service. Lack of Maintenance as well, due to ignorance!
Starting questions:
The DLFC is a 065 on it is this the flow (6.5gpm)? LOOKING FOR SUGGESTIONS REGARDING THIS? Is it enough?
The Air injector valve thing is orange (what does this mean?) I see there are different colors available?
What does the "Basket" thing I took out actually do?
PS
Did some farting around tonight....water temp between 46-50F


Thanks for your patience and time!

 

[Reach4]

The DLFC is a 065 on it is this the flow (6.5gpm)?

You could play the drain line into a 5 gallon bucket, and time how long it takes to fill, or almost fill. Do some math, and know the actual backwash rate.

You could weigh the change in weight for the bucket rather than interpolating. If you only do about 4 gallons, you should spill less than trying to fill the 5 gallon bucket to the brim.

This is easier with a flex line for the drain line.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Rotaris]

As far as flow rate of my well pump I am confused. If I do the proper method using time for pressure switch cut in cut out and volume of water between I get between 4.7 to 5.2 gpm. If I get a five gallon bucket and time it to fill from my hydrant on top of the well,
I can fill a 5.2 gal bucket in .17 seconds.
I removed the Down flow restrictor (065) and backwashed. Pump seemed to keep up? This is with a hard piped 3/4 pvc drain? Water is between 47-50F. I don't understand the bed washing expansion stuff enough yet. The charts look like Greek to me...?
I am just learning, and so far so good.

Great idea to play with the drain line to see what I get. As far as backwash flowrates.
Some more info for you guys to chew on:
Currently Backwash 22min
Air 50 min
Rinse 6 min.
Set to do this everyday, as 3 days water tastes funny, Could try every two I guess? FYI looks clear but tastes not so great.
Also there is two of us in the house, do not use a lot of water. So filter can barley handle the flow rates we use.

 

[Reach4]

I can fill a 5.2 gal bucket in .17 seconds.

That computes to 18 gpm, but the pressure tank could have been contributing for a while.

I don't understand the bed washing expansion stuff enough yet.

If your tank is almond color, you can shine a bright flashlight through in a dark room, and see the shadow of the media.

The media normally fills 2/3(0.667) of the space. 30% bed expansion would mean the shadow rises to 130% of what the height of the media was before.

If the bed expanded to the top, that would be 50% expansion.

 

[Rotaris]

Thanks Reach, black Tank is what I have. hmmmm.

 

[Rotaris]

Another question for you guys/gals, the piston in my system would it be a downflow or upflow piston. Trying to order one and it looks like there could have been black paint in the middle......that wore off, or could be rust. And the amber one is just for downflow? WS1EE is valve I think?

 

[Rotaris]

Could use some advice and help.
Testing today and removal of top basket that was supplied on riser tube, it was caked with iron, enough that I had to remove media, because the riser tube was stuck to it. What a horrible job that was!
Anyway media looked black with some clumps. Clumps looked like clay??
Put media back in (Tried to get gravel that was mixed in bottom, down the vessel first) is this O.K.?

I backed washed with supplied 6.5 DLFC. Measured drain flow...6.6gpm
I then installed a 9 DLFC washer. Measured 3 times and got 8.3 gpm everytime.
The pressure tank held at 42psi.
Some very small like microscopic size remanence was being back washed out. Uniform like silt? (I have pictures, but trying to upload is challenging)
If the bottom of distributer tube was clogged a bit would this affect my backwash flow? Dont really understand how this CLACK Valve works.
With above information what to recommend for DLFC.
Duration of Backwash in minutes?
10x52-Katalox 1.5cubic ft

 

[Reach4]

Put media back in (Tried to get gravel that was mixed in bottom, down the vessel first) is this O.K.?

Gravel will end up back on the bottom after the first backwash.

I then installed a 9 DLFC washer. Measured 3 times and got 8.3 gpm everytime.
The pressure tank held at 42psi.

Nice!

With above information what to recommend for DLFC.

It looks like you nailed it.

What gunk cleaner do you use? Iron Out? Citric acid? While your better backwash should help a lot, I think you will not want to try going 5 years between cleanings.

 

[Rotaris]

Iron out, I just was not sure about what to clean, when to clean. I am just getting my feet wet here.....no pun...Could you explain the chart a bit to me. I am 47-50F water,
Is the gpm on chart showing I should be 7.0 for 35% expansion. Sorry I am not clear?

 

[Reach4]

Iron out, I just was not sure about what to clean, when to clean. I am just getting my feet wet here.....no pun...Could you explain the chart a bit to me. I am 47-50F water,
Is the gpm on chart showing I should be 7.0 for 35% expansion. Sorry I am not clear?

Tank is about 2/3 full, and that is considered 100%. To expand to the top (150% height) would be 50% bed expansion.

With a top basket, at that point the top basket would come into play to keep the media from washing out.

The URL for the brochure with the Backwash Velocity (m/h) vs. Bed Expansion (%) table for KL is now
https://www.watchwater.de/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/KATALOX-LIGHT-General-Brochure.pdf
I took the data from the graph lines and made the entries into a spreadsheet. That table is a screen snip from a spreadsheet and sized for a 10 inch tank.

Now what is the ideal bed expansion? Not sure. 40% seems good to me to maximize washing crud out. 35% should be good too. Now were they a bit optimistic in drawing their graph?

I have a litany of disclaimers if you have not seen them already.

s the gpm on chart showing I should be 7.0 for 35% expansion.

Yes... presuming I interpreted and interpolated the pixels on the graph right.

 

[Bannerman]

You mention an upper basket but an upper basket should not be used in an iron reduction filter. Here is an example of why an upper basket should not be used.
https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?attachments/top-basket-jpg.66793/

To diffuse the incoming water flow so it doesn't erode a hole into the media directly below where the water enters through the control valve, an umbrella diffuser should be utilized. An umbrella diffuser is shown as part #27-105UMB on the left page here:
https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/140

 

[Rotaris]

Thank you very much guys! I removed the top basket for now due to the exact problem you have in picture. Thus the reason for the media removal......so I could get the tube back in place.
I did the backwash test in a 3 bay sink with five gallon buckets to see if I would lose media with the higher rates and no top strainer. Only some very microfines were lost, Probably should have been gone years ago!

Any ideas where I could purchase the Umbrella diffuser in Canada...... eh? And How does it attach?

If I had the media I would have just replaced it.
I live smack dab in the middle of nothing, parts etc hard to find. Hours of driving to Edmonton, the biggest City around, they dont seem to have much as well.

Everyday:
Backwash 14min
Air 40 min
What to you guys think?
Stick with the 9 DLFC or go to 8 or and 7.5
Find a Umbrella?

Thanks again for your help, without it I would still be typing and not "Doing"!

 

[Bannerman]

PM sent

 

[Water Guy]

Thank you very much guys! I removed the top basket for now due to the exact problem you have in picture. Thus the reason for the media removal......so I could get the tube back in place.
I did the backwash test in a 3 bay sink with five gallon buckets to see if I would lose media with the higher rates and no top strainer. Only some very microfines were lost, Probably should have been gone years ago!

Any ideas where I could purchase the Umbrella diffuser in Canada...... eh? And How does it attach?

If I had the media I would have just replaced it.
I live smack dab in the middle of nothing, parts etc hard to find. Hours of driving to Edmonton, the biggest City around, they dont seem to have much as well.

Everyday:
Backwash 14min
Air 40 min
What to you guys think?
Stick with the 9 DLFC or go to 8 or and 7.5
Find a Umbrella?

Thanks again for your help, without it I would still be typing and not "Doing"!

top basket is required as katalox is very light. underbedding also required (enough to cover the screen on bottom of distribution tube. clumping means the mineral has gone bad and funneling will occur. I would advise 10 min backwash, 60 minute air draw, and 2 to 3 day regen frequency. you may have to replace the media every 5 yrs as the KL is only rated to around 2 ppm, but more frequent regen may extend that.

 

[Bannerman]

Re: top basket https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/softener-upper-basket.84447/#post-607958 post #5

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/iron-filter-needed.80343/#post-582285 post # 5

 

[Water Guy]

Re: top basket https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/softener-upper-basket.84447/#post-607958 post #5

https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/iron-filter-needed.80343/#post-582285 post # 5

you certainly know your stuff

 

[Skyjumper]

top baskets with an iron filter are a bit controversial here. indeed my own top basket iron photo is floating around here somewhere. having said that, I put my top basket back in... because I was losing KL out the drain during backwash, and (I think) the KL was getting caught in the seals causing leaks... since putting the top basket back in the filter has been working much better, and no leaks. Now I totally understand I will have to take the valve off every 6 months or so to clean/replace the top basket --- and I'm fine with that. 30 minutes every 6 months, no big deal.

did I overfill the tank with KL when I put it in?? probably.
is the 9gpm button too much?? well that depends on if you want a complete backwash (and yes, I'm very well aware of the watch water backwash specs...)

 

[Rotaris]

top basket is required as katalox is very light. underbedding also required (enough to cover the screen on bottom of distribution tube. clumping means the mineral has gone bad and funneling will occur. I would advise 10 min backwash, 60 minute air draw, and 2 to 3 day regen frequency. you may have to replace the media every 5 yrs as the KL is only rated to around 2 ppm, but more frequent regen may extend that.

Thanks for the advice curtis water, I will give this a shot!
Side note, I did observe the backwash with 3, 5 gallon pails. when I was measuring my backwash rate @ 8.3gpm, I was not seeing media being lost. so I thought I should try it.

 

[Bannerman]

because I was losing KL out the drain during backwash,

If KL is being lifted that high in the tank, then your DLFC rate is too high for the water temperature and tank diameter. Warmer water is less dense than cooler water so a higher DLFC rate will be needed for warmer water to achieve the same amount of lift.

In the lower chart linked below, the recommended BW rate for KL media is indicated as 10-15 GPM per square foot to achieve 20-30% bed expansion and lift. The square foot amount is the tank cross-section.

If for instance, you have a 10" diameter tank and a backwash water temperature of 60F, the appropriate BW rate will be 5.4 - 8.1 GPM DLFC as shown in the upper chart. If the tank diameter is another size, then the BW rate will need to be amended accordingly. As stated directly below the upper chart, if the water temp is cooler than 60F, the flow rate will need to be reduced and if the water is above 70F, the BW rate will need to be increased.

https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/155

 

[Rotaris]

Another question, I am on the fence about rinsing, I have been told to rinse and told not to rinse after air draw in tank. I was told that you lose your air gap when rinsing? Is this true. Clack WS1 valve