How to remove deep well cap?

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Lakee911

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That's a good read. Why all the hype about increased security at water treatment plants? Just hook up a pump to your local faucet and pump in your favorite bio-lethal chemical. :(
 

tinytec

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Here's the latest on my well resurrection project . .

I followed much of the advice given here. As recommended installed a 6" PVC extension to the original 4" casing and brought the casing above ground. This was sure a lot easier than welding a steel extension. also installed a pitless connector about 5' down. Made a 1" pipe T-bar tool to link the pitless connection down inside the pipe.

Should have listened to your advice and bought a NEW pump. I made up a working pump from two used Goulds - the motor from one, and the pump unit from the other. The unit bench-tested OK but the motor went dead down in the well.

So I pulled and replaced it with a new pump. Now the new one is stuck 80' down, with another 25' to go. The old pumps jammed a number of times while pulling or installing them, but nothing like this one. The new pump is really hung up solid (aaarrggghhh) - may have to send a stick of dynamite down. I'm rigging a miniature IR camera to drop down and look at the obstruction. Hopefully the images will be visible so they can be recorded on a VCR and viewed on TV. With my luck the camera will get snagged on the safety rope or cable and join the pump in Davey Jone's locker.

Well, that's where I'm at now. Have over $500 invested so far and a formidable challenge ahead. . .fun ... fun ... :) :)

Fred
 

speedbump

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If you ever get this bad motor out Fred, you might want to consider a 3" submersible pump. Myers and Grundfos both make one. They don't get snagged on bad joints like the 4" pumps do. They are more expensive, but a better idea than a new well.

By the way, I don't know if I mentioned it before, but that rope you tied to the pump is a joke. It won't pull as much as the pipe you hung the pump on and is something to fall into the well and tie up the pump.

bob...
 

Gary Slusser

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Your original drop pipe.... PE can not be 'glued' so it wasn't PE. It sounds like that first ever sch 40 plastic I mentioned; ABS IPS thin walled plastic from the 1960s.

I would have used PE for the new drop pipe, it bends nicely in wells that twist 'n turn where 10-20' sectional PVC won't and the couplings help to hang it up in the well.

I would not use rope. It does nothing but give a false sense of security and can hang ya up in the well.

I would not use any type of torque arrestor in a well that hung up the pump I was replacing...

I'd do my best to pull this pump and get rid of any rope and arrestor if you used either. I might change to PE tubing if you used PVC. The other thing to think about is to not put it down the well as far. You have maybe 50' of water over the pump when it's at 80' so it depends on how much water you use at one time and the recovery rate of the well. You can also find a 3" pump. No dyNOmite though... :)
 

tinytec

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"If you ever get this bad motor out Fred, you might want to consider a 3" submersible pump."

>>>>Too late - the pump that's stuck is a new Ace/Franklin I just bought from Lowe's.

"rope you tied to the pump is a joke"

>>>Too late - I used 3/8" rope rated at I think near 200 lb. The pump had only a 1/4" hole for the rope so I made a stainless steel collar with a 3/8" hole.

".. sounds like that first ever sch 40 plastic I mentioned; ABS IPS thin walled plastic from the 1960s."

>>>You're probably right. The house was built in the early 60s.


" . ..I'd do my best to pull this pump and get rid of any rope and arrestor if you used either."

>>>Yes, I also installed one of those expandable torque arrestors. I left the upper clamp just loose enough so the thing could slide a little. It's probably expanding when I pull up and jamming against the barnacles in the casing!!


" . . change to PE tubing if you used PVC. The other thing to think about is to not put it down the well as far. You have maybe 50' of water over the pump when it's at 80' so it depends on how much water you use at one time and the recovery rate of the well."

>>>I used a 100' coil of 1" black tubing from HD. The pump is jammed at a level where there is not enough water to keep it submerged. I ran the pump in a few short spurts to see if it worked and you could hear the sucking noise when the water dropped below the pump intake. I previously measured the water depth at 33'.

>>>I have the camera water-proofed so it works underwater, but your messages make me realize I cannot get the camera past that &&^##**@@ torque arrestor!! aaarrgghhh again - woe is me :(

Fred - gonna go bury head in sand :(
 

speedbump

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You even bought your pump at the wrong place Fred. Sounds like a cluster **** all the way around. At least you will know better next time.

I'm sorry you used the torque arrestor, that will make it difficult if not impossible to beat down on the top of the pump's discharge end.

What PSI poly pipe did you use?

bob...
 

tinytec

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Bob,

"You even bought your pump at the wrong place Fred. Sounds like a cluster **** all the way around. At least you will know better next time."

>>>>>I didn't do much right beyond digging the hole and finding the casing location - that's what inexperience does. I'm afraid there won't be a next time for me. If it weren't for all you guys' help I would have screwed up a lot more, if that's possible. BTW where would have been the right place to buy the pump?

"I'm sorry you used the torque arrestor, that will make it difficult if not impossible to beat down on the top of the pump's discharge end."

>>>I plan as a last resort, to pull until the pump frees up or the rope/pipe and cable break. Nothing to lose that hasn't already been lost.

What PSI poly pipe did you use?
>>>100 PSI.

Fred
 

Gary Slusser

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The 100 psi is a bit light IMO. I would have used 160.

If you are pulling on the rope, don't, that will cock the pump into the casing.

You messed up leaving the top clamp loose on the arrestor. I would make myself a pointy end hook of say 3/8" rod on 1/4" rope that should/could catch in the torque arrestor and fish for it and then attempt to hold it taught as I pulled on the drop pipe. Meaning pull the arrestor up to get it off the casing.

I don't know but this sounds kinda terminal... if there's anyone in this thread that mentioned using a rope and/or arrestor, send'em the bill. :)
 

speedbump

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You may get lucky, I once pulled on a submersible pump hung on Poly 160 Psi. I stretched it apprx 12 feet above the well. The pump never moved and the rig stalled. It was an old friction rig so I have no way of knowing how many tons I was lifting, but that old rig was pretty tough and the poly won.

bob...
 

tinytec

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Bob,

Amazing the poly would stretch that much without breaking. I put the camera down the well and recorded the video as the camera descended to about 80'. Nothing unusual showed up as the cam descended but the video was very poor for the last ~20'. While retracting the camera it got snagged between the 220VAC cable and the poly pipe at about 50' (so what's new?).

Today I tied a cord to a short length of steel pipe and slid it down over the camera cable, hoping its weight might push the camera downward and free it up. The cord broke and now the steel pipe joined all the other hardware down there. Ever hear of a comedy of errors? This is actually beginning to get funny. I didn't think it was possible to stack mistakes on mistakes like this.

I also used a lever to pull up on the security rope - probably applied about 150 pounds but nothing moved.

Be sure to stay tuned for the next exciting episode on "Well Restoration for Amateurs".

Fred - getting dumber by the day.
 

speedbump

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Well Fred, all we can do is hope for the best. I hope this well is not the only means of water you have for your house.

We have all done these things only not on wells. In my case it would be cars, trucks things we need right now and don't have the time to have it done right. So three times the cost of doing it right later, the thing is fixed and working again.

bob...
 

tinytec

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I attached two winches, one to the rope and the other to the plastic pipe. Pulled with both and the Ace pump, along with the ensnarled video camera, finally gave up and came out. The reason it jammed 80' down in the well is because the diameter of the pump portion is larger than that of the original Goulds pump (The motor diameters are all the same). The Goulds pump came out with difficulty because of buildup or rock interference so there is no room for anything bigger.

Lowe's was good enough to take the Ace pump back and issue a credit. Now I need to find a 1/2 HP 230V. 2-wire submersible that's no larger than the old pump. Prices seem to run ~$300 but I'll have to measure the new pump to make sure it will fit this time.

. . .stay tuned - we're not "dead-in the-water" - yet :)
 

speedbump

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I would think reaming the well would be the easiest thing to do. I'm sure there are some drillers in your area that can open that hole up for you. We are having to do one today. We got the old pump out by beating on it, but you can't beat the new one back in, so we are going to ream the pipe to make the new pump go in easily.


bob...
 

tinytec

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Bob, how big an operation is reaming a well? Do you use small portable equipment or do use the full well drilling rig? Also, is it expensive?

Fred with lots of questions. . . :confused:
 

speedbump

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For a 4" well I built a device that will screw onto the bottom of my Jars. (Jars are a tool that allows you to hammer up and down in the well at whatever it is you are trying to move or in this case scrape) I use a Pump Hoist built by Semco in Colorado. It has a walking beam installed that makes the rods we use move up and down to react with the jars at roughly 60 strokes per minute. This device is simply a 3" Drive Shoe that fits almost snugly in 4" pipe. It is welded to a 1" coupling so it will screw onto the Jars.

If I were to do this for a customer in my area, our labor charge is $350.00 for the first hour and $150.00 there after. I would think you could ream this pipe in one to two hours.

bob...
 

tinytec

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Thanks for the description of the reaming machine. I never knew there was such a device. That sure puts a lot of rust scrapings down in the well. I assume it all settles to the bottom where it doesn't get picked up by the pump.

Today I ran the camera down the well and could actually see where the pump's cable guard had scraped the casing wall in places. Could also see where the sections of casing were welded together.

This afternoon I made a reamer by flaring out one end of a 2' length of 3" heavy-wall steel pipe to about 3 7/8" dia. Next I ground the inside of the flared edge to an angle for shearing any protrusions on the casing wall. The makeshift reamer weighs about 35 lbs and has worked down about 40' so far. I use the safety rope to work the tool up and down as it shaves the walls. Also attached a backup 1/8" steel cable in case anything unexpected happens to the rope.

If the reaming goes OK to the required pump depth I will lower the old junk pump to make sure it actually fits before putting a new one back in.

In regard to the 3" pump suggestion the only one I found available locally was a Grundfos for about $550. If the reaming is successful I would probably get the pump back from Lowe's.

Will continue the reaming tomorrow and keep you all posted.

Fred - there's still hope!! :cool:
 

speedbump

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That's not a bad price for the 3". I wonder which one you priced. They make about 28 different 3" pumps for different water levels and different prices to go along with them.

I don't recommend going to Lowes to buy a pump though.

bob...
 
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