Help Me Understand My Well Water Level - Please

[RogerPDX]

I've been trying to figure out the best method of "possibly" repairing my low producing well
for the last couple of months. There are some terrific guys on here who have helped me
understand wells. I have not jumped at a new well or a new pump - yet, but time is closing
in on me.

I have very limited space to drill a new well, so I have thought of fracking my existing well,
or if at all possible - just use what I have now.

The well has been very low producing since it was drilled in this rock (1978). I have gotten
about 250 gallons / 24hrs (10+ gallons an hour). Not great, but it has worked for us.

Lately the pump/pipe have seemingly been acting up (trying to pump but not producing
anything into my cistern). I found a contractor to R&R the pipe & pump, but left on a trip,
so it was delayed.

The water originally came into the well at 150'
The well was drilled to 386'.

The well has not been pumped since May 18th.
I have probed the well 3 times:
May 23rd the probe beeped at 214'.
May 27th the probe beeped at 198'.
June 1st the probe beeped at 180'.

Can someone please explain to me what this means?
I have my 'thoughts' on what it might mean, but I'd like to hear it from the guys who
really understand this science.

After I learn what this means, I can make a good decision to 1.) use the well as is;
2.) Frack the well first - then use it; 3.) Maybe find a spot to drill a new well; 4.) Get
some large storage tanks and haul water from our municipal water district in town.

#4 is not appealing to me, but the money spent on tanks, etc is a "sure bet" vs
all the unknowns...

I'd love to get your opinion - thanks.

 

[Craigpump]

I have similar conversations with customers regularly.

Your well is making an average of 17' or about 25 gallons per day.

Hauling water will get old in a hurry. You will need a tank that has been certified to hook up to municipal water without cross contaminating the water supply, or hire someone to haul it for you.

Think of the time, expense (truck, fuel and cost of the water) and inconvenience of having to get the water.

Down the road you may want to sell the house. How will you explain the tanks, piping and booster system? Would YOU buy the house with that water system?

My feeling is that you need to either
A) frack your well
B) drill your well deeper
C) drill another well

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

The well has not been pumped since May 18th.
I have probed the well 3 times:
May 23rd the probe beeped at 214'.
May 27th the probe beeped at 198'.
June 1st the probe beeped at 180'.

Can someone please explain to me what this means?

The water level was rising from 4 to 3.6 feet per day.

 

[RogerPDX]

Could the well be producing as normal - but since we are not using it, could it be leaking
back into fractures and going somewhere else? (use it or lose it - so to speak?)

 

[akcooper9]

Its seems to me that on the 23rd it was at 214 down but by the 1st it had risen to 180ft for a gain of 34 feet or as Reach4 put it, your well water level is rising at about 3.78 feet a day.

What is the price to have a well fracked? How much land do you have that your current well is on?

Does your area have well records that you can access? I'd be looking at all the resent wells drilled close to my house to factor in fracking vs drilling new or deeper.

 

[Valveman]

How much it rises in a day isn't helpful. How much the well recovers in an hour or two after being pumped down could be used as production.

 

[RogerPDX]

How much it rises in a day isn't helpful. How much the well recovers in an hour or two after being pumped down could be used as production.

Could you please elaborate on this for me? A well guy here said something similar to me, but had no explanation for me.
Please remember that the only water that came into the hole was at the 150' level, in 1978. I would have thought that the SWL would be 150' (+-) and after not pumping it for so lon the water would be at 150'...

Are you saying that the well just might not ever rest at 150' - that it might be recovering but since it is not being pumped - that it could be leaking back into the environment - never to get to the 150' level?

 

[RogerPDX]

What is the price to have a well fracked? How much land do you have that your current well is on?

Does your area have well records that you can access? I'd be looking at all the resent wells drilled close to my house to factor in fracking vs drilling new or deeper.

Fracking is costly - $6K - $8K ++. I have an acre, but it is on a slope to the ocean and most of it is not accessible. That's a big problem. I can see the well log for 2 or 3 neighbors. Two of them get 14 - 40 GPM, one gets 2 GPM.

There is one fracker here in the islands and 2 in the Spokane area (500 - 600 miles away). The island guy is pretty loosey goosey. One of the Spokane guys said he didn't want to come out this way and the other Spokane guy said "no problem, we'll get it ddone". (Whenever I hear "no problem", I think "problem"!).

 

[Reach4]

Are you saying that the well just might not ever rest at 150' - that it might be recovering but since it is not being pumped - that it could be leaking back into the environment - never to get to the 150' level?

Logic says that would happen. Strata would be impervious, accept water, or give water. It seems to make sense that the dry stata would absorb at least a little water. Your model has been that you have a slow source of water 150 ft down and an impervious bore below that point. Your model is probably over-simplified. Just thinking... no experience.

I would not think what you did is totally meaningless, but it is not as useful as what Valveman suggests.

What I think Valveman suggests is to pump down to maybe a little above the pump. Measure the level of the water. Check the water level after 1 and/or 2 hours. Knowing the diameter of the well, you could calculate a recovery rate. That should be compatible with a number generated by pumping until the pump starts sucking air. Wait an hour or two. Pump again, and measure how much water got pumped that time.

 

[RogerPDX]

What I think Valveman suggests is to pump down to maybe a little above the pump. Measure the level of the water. Check the water level after 1 and/or 2 hours. Knowing the diameter of the well, you could calculate a recovery rate. That should be compatible with a number generated by pumping until the pump starts sucking air. Wait an hour or two. Pump again, and measure how much water got pumped that time.

Last time I tried pumping with my old pump (that is still down there) it tried & tried but nothing came out. I could hear water but nothing came into the cistern.

I can probe it and try pumping again. If it pumps, I can do so til it pumps air, shut it off and probe again.
Then wait 2 hours and probe again. That's a good idea. Thanks to both of you for suggesting it.

If my pump won't work, are pump companies typically set up to remove my pump and pipe and then drop
their own pump & pipe down my well to do the same pump/wait/probe type test? I really don't want to buy
new pump and pipe if I end up "hauling" water.

I had a Witcher come out this morning. I didn't tell him anything he just went to work. He ended
up in the same exact location as did a different Witcher 36 years ago! Back then my well driller talked me
out of that location, as he'd break trees, have to cut some trees and he'd make a big mess, etc.
So we drilled in another location which wasn't too good... In my present location, the Witcher did
not get a reading worth drilling for...

I also talked with a guy in Seattle (AquaLocate) who does an electronic - scientific type witching/sounding
service. Do you (or anybody reading this) have experience with these types of water locating services?

 

[Reach4]

Regarding the witcher, this would have been the spot for a double-blind test. Have a friend who had no idea what the previous suggestion was to accompany the witcher. I am not saying to do it again, but I am saying that he could have been reading you-- possibly without him even being aware of it.

However looking on the web, it looks more promising than it did when I just heard "witching".

Is that recommended spot lower, or at a change of terrain or what? Regarding cutting trees, you might have been able to do that 36 years ago, but you might need a permit and report by an arborist, and maybe more to do that today... at least if it is like King County.

Did AquaLocate give an estimate as to how far down the water was at that recommended spot?

Click Notifications at the top.

 

[Valveman]

If the water is coming in at 150’, the level may eventually recover to 150’, but it could take days or weeks. There will be less down-hole pressure when the water level is below 150’, so more water will come into the well than when the water level is close to 150’. What matters is how much water falls in the well from that 150’ spot in an hour or two. With the pump set at 386’ there will be about 1.5 gallons stored in the well for every foot of standing water above the pump. Pump it down to 386’, let the well recover for an hour or two, then pump it again. The amount you pump out divided by the time is the usable recovery rate.

 

[LLigetfa]

If the water is coming in at 150’, the level may eventually recover to 150’, but it could take days or weeks. There will be less down-hole pressure when the water level is below 150’, so more water will come into the well than when the water level is close to 150’.

If the water is entering the borehole only at the 150 foot mark, then downhole pressure is not a factor. A waterfall is a good analogy. More water won't go over the falls if the level at the base of the falls changes.

I think there may be water entering the borehole below the 150 foot mark and that downhole pressure is in fact at play here.

 

[RogerPDX]

Did AquaLocate give an estimate as to how far down the water was at that recommended spot?

Reach4 - thanks for your tips. I only talked with AquaLocate on the phone so far. I did have a witcher come out an he gave me an approximation of how far down the water is. I'd have to measure it, but I recall it to look like about 20' or so.

 

[RogerPDX]

I think there may be water entering the borehole below the 150 foot mark and that downhole pressure is in fact at play here.

LLigetfa - Can you please help me understand what you meant by 'downhole pressure is in play'?

 

[Reach4]

Reach4 - thanks for your tips. I only talked with AquaLocate on the phone so far. I did have a witcher come out an he gave me an approximation of how far down the water is. I'd have to measure it, but I recall it to look like about 20' or so.

I am pretty much with the skeptics here. If this were really effective, I am thinking it would be really big news. Maybe people are slow to recognize a great development this time, but what are the odds?

I know that seismic testing for oil and gas is very effective even at big depths. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflection_seismology They drop a big weight or use explosives. They have several sensors record the echos. But that stuff is very expensive -- far exceeding the cost of a 1000 foot water well.

Regarding the depth, I was referring to how far below the earth the water was predicted to be by the dowser. If that number was 20 feet, maybe the weeping willow growing there gave it away. I think you probably thought I was asking about the elevation change between spots.

Anyway, did the Canadian company say "no way"?

 

[LLigetfa]

LLigetfa - Can you please help me understand what you meant by 'downhole pressure is in play'?

Water finds its own equilibrium. The lower the water is drawn down in the well relative to the aquifer, the greater the differential in pressure, the greater the flow. This of course is provided the rock is not impervious and top fed.

Picture two tanks of water connected by 1/4" tubing. The rate of transfer from one tank to the other varies depending on the difference in height.

 

[Craigpump]

There's also cone of depression. It's possible that one of your neighbors is using a lot of water which could possibly have an impact on your well.

 

[Boycedrilling]

I personally know all three of the people that you have talked to about Hydrofracing your well. I would not have any qualms about using any of the three. Personally I would frac your existing well before even considering drilling a new one.

For the rest of you, he is on an ISLAND. In Puget Sound, in salt water, for all practical purposes, in the Pacific Ocean. Salt water intrusion is a real issue. He has to capture the fresh water lens from rainfall on the island that is floating above the salt water. This is a granite formation. The only water bearing formation he will find will be fractures in the granite. There are no gravel or sand water bearing zones.