Gas Fireplace: Electronic (IPI) Pilot issues

[OldSalt]

Some HVAC companies around this area also specialize in Fireplace installation, so I'm going to "troll" and toss this question out there, hoping that someone out there has some experience with this.

I have a Majestic propane fireplace insert with a "signature command center" electronic (a.k.a. IPI, or "intermittent pilot light") pilot ignition system. (New-ish installation, installed in 2016 during house build, but I only got it working last fall (maybe Nov 2017). Manufacturers for all of these electronic start systems recommend leaving the system in standing pilot mode in cold weather areas, both to prevent condensation build up in the pilot which will prevent ignition, and (some say) to keep the firebox warm enough that reverse convection doesn't pull cold air into the house.

With that "mouthful" said, here's the issue. We had a real problem when it first got cold, which is when I first read about the standing pilot recommendation. I didn't want to burn propane all winter long through the pilot, but once the temp's dropped into the 30's, if that pilot wasn't lit, that fireplace was never going to light. So, I set it into standing pilot mode, and the unit has worked well since, all winter.

However, we've had the fireplace mostly off for several weeks now with warmer weather++. We've had windy weather since then, and temps dropped to 20F last night. During that period, we evidently lost the pilot light. I can't get it started now. The electronic starter is clicking/snapping, so I'm pretty sure there's spark. I tried heating up the area with a heat gun to dry out the pilot assembly, should that be the issue. I've also opened up the pilot light pressure control to give the pilot more gas, and will tune it a bit hotter when it's working again, hopefully to prevent a recurrence.

Here's my main question: Can an electronic IPI pilot light system be overridden, to manually light the pilot. From what I've read, it can't be done, because gas flow to the pilot is controlled by a magnet controlled valve (related to heat at the thermopile and thermocouple). If the pilot does not start, there is no heat, and therefore, no gas (simplified explanation). I've tried to heat up the thermopile with a gas log lighter, hoping the pilot would light, but no joy.

Bottom line: from what I've read, these electronic pilots are a consistent problem. This fireplace unit is our backup heating system, and it's not reliable due to the pilot. If I can't "force" the pilot to heat, i.e. lighting it manually, the fireplace will be dead when we lose electrical power, and maybe, so also will we. I need to figure out a way to guarantee the pilot lights (i.e. if we lose it), either according to spec or manually.

Thanks.

++ Note regarding "Warmer weather": That would be temperatures above 30F, which is when my heat pump is locked out. Below 30F, the furnace shifts to 100% coil heat, which costs us about 3x more. The 30,000 BTU fireplace is also our "propane furnace" when temps drop below 30F. We dropped our over all energy costs about 30%-40% with use of the fireplace, and I'm convinced it'll drop even lower next year when I install propane stoves in the bedrooms to act as a form of propane powered "zone heating".

 

[OldSalt]

Well, here's an update for future reference.

1. Have found no documentation indicating any work arounds to a direct vent fireplace electronic ignition pilot not lighting in cold weather. Simply put, if it's too cold, it won't light, and if the pilot doesn't light, neither will your fireplace (or furnace). I'm not sure why condensation impacts the unit this way, i.e. if water clogs the orifice or if the cold freezes the magnetic gas valve.
2. My consistent solution: Remove the glass, put a space heater directly in front of the firebox, and warm it up for a couple of hours. After the unit is warmed up, relight the unit, turn it off, and pilot remains, leaving the unit ready for use. I also increased the pilot a half turn. (Don't want the pilot burning too hot, and sooting up the pilot and glass. The flame is still blue.)
   
3. The house is configured for a gas generator (and I have a 500 gal propane tank), which will ultimately be my alternate power/cold weather backup plan. Critical circuits only are supported, to reduce the generator and gas requirements, so alternate heating is the 30,000 BTU fireplace (and fireplace fan).
4. The interim backup plan, should I lose the pilot in winter, is to buy a kerosene space heater, and place it in front of the firebox to heat it up. We'll have to be aware of the ventilation issues and crack a window or two (even though in theory, some of the exhaust would be carried out in the fireplace flu). It'd only be temporary to get the fireplace pilot lit.

It's a heck of a work around for what should be a ten cent problem. I'm surprised that some company hasn't designed a more reliable gas pilot system. From what I've read, all direct vent fireplaces with electronic pilots have this problem in cold weather areas. A IPI unit that doesn't require a standing pilot in winter, should make someone some $sales.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I would be thinking of a propane torch, on low, heating the critical area. I don't know what the critical area would be, and I don't know anything about the system you are describing. I have a hard time understanding why they would intentionally design a system to not light when it was cold.

A propane torch can be handy for both lighting and warming the flame sensor quicker.

 

[OldSalt]

I would be thinking of a propane torch, on low, heating the critical area. I don't know what the critical area would be, and I don't know anything about the system you are describing. I have a hard time understanding why they would intentionally design a system to not light when it was cold.

A propane torch can be handy for both lighting and warming the flame sensor quicker.

I had thought of that. I first tried a gas fireplace lighter for a minute or two, but that didn't do the job. Then I decided to try the heat gun, as a safer alternative to a gas torch. Eventually, I backed off on that as well and went with the space heater to heat the whole firefox. My thought was that the electronics and plastics in the unit, including the resister, thermocouple, and thermopile might not handle direct heat well, perhaps melting or simply burning the part out. Stuff like that's happened to me; lesson's learned. (Yeah, I know that this thing is inside the fire, but the pilot flame rides above the base, and well, I'm not the lucky type.)

The problem with lighting the pilot with a touch is (a) the fireplace doesn't light the pilot, it lights the fireplace, and I'm not flame proof, and (b) I suspected, and still do, that the problem is a frozen valve, that no gas is getting to the pilot. The problem could also be frozen condensation in the pilot orifice, but after a minute or two of the lighter on the gas supply/orifice (middle thingy in the picture below), the ice should have melted and the condensation evaporated.

This is the pilot assembly.

Thanks for the feedback!

 

[Reach4]

Dang. That's complex.

 

[Jadnashua]

Propane doesn't vaporize all that great when it's really cold which might be part of the problem.

 

[MACPLUMB]

The Thermopile just runs the Electronics, the other rod proofs the pilot to open Gas valve it makes a electric millavolt
to open the pilot, which then heats the third rod that allows the Main Gas to open for the Burner