Fleck 5812 SXT Setup Woes

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, Questions and Answers' started by noimad, Apr 6, 2021.

  1. noimad

    noimad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
    houston
    Ok, so I purchased a Fleck 5812 SXT with 64k Grains (10% crosslink resin) from https://www.discountwatersofteners....leck-5812-sxt-on-demand-water-softener-1-1-4/

    I previously had another water softener installed, but I don't know the actual size of that one, and there are no model numbers on it, so I don't really know what the company used. I don't actually know what hardness this system got us down too, as I never knew how to test it until I found this forum, but I will say we still had some white buildup in our showers. This system was damaged during the Texas Freeze, so I figured I would go with the 5812 with 64k grains which appears to be much larger than the old system.

    I have a 4800 sqft home with 6 people living here. My water hardness was an 11 based on Hach 5B test, and this is city water.

    After installing the new system, my hardness only went down to a 6 (on whatever the factory settings were). I contacted discountwater and these are the settings they told me to set my fleck 5812 SXT to:

    RF Regenerant Flow: DF1b
    CT Control Type: Fd
    C Unit Capacity: 58,000
    H Feedwater hardness: 13
    RS Reserve Selection: RC 450
    DO Day Override: 14
    RT Regen Time: 2:00am
    BW: 15
    BD: 60
    RR: 10
    BF: 28
    FM Flow Meter Type: t1.2

    I set those settings, then waited about 2 weeks, tested again, but still a 6 on the hardness. And now I noticed that there is a lot more water in the salt tank...it's probably 3/4 full of water now, and was probably only a bout 1/4 full previously.

    Now, I do have some questions about the install that I'm wondering could be affecting this issue. And bear with me because I am a complete newbie when it comes to all this. So if any of these questions are dumb, or I did something dumb, just smack me.

    For the install, I just swapped the two systems out directly, but there were some sizing differences. First, the fleck 5812SXT I ordered apparently is 1 1/4 inch piping, but my water coming from the city is only 1 inch. The old softener system was also 1 inch. I was thinking as long as I went in 1 inch and out 1 inch of the softener the pressure should still be good? But the flow meter type is set to the t1.2 (for the 1 1/4 inch valve). Could that setting be not letting enough water into the softener because it thinks the lines are bigger, and maybe isn't opening long enough or something like that? Or did I just royaly mess up by ordering the wrong size valve?

    It could also be me, but it does seem like I have a little less water pressure in the showers than before.

    Next, the poly tubing the old system used for the flush line is quite a bit smaller. I just got a fitting to go from the larger size to smaller. Could this be preventing the system from completely flushing and preventing the hardness from reaching the lower level? I think this one will be easy enough for me to switch, and I've already ordered some new polytube. But just curious thoughts on this.

    Lastly, do the above settings appear to be appropriate based on number of people, water hardness, etc?

    I've attached a few photos of the install in case anyone sees anything out of place?
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    So let's first figure out the main reason why your water is only being softened down to 6 grains, and worry about the settings later. First, do a regen, and time how long into the BD cycle it takes for the brine to be drawn all of the way down to the middle of the air check valve (down the brine well). Normal is about 15 minutes, give or take.

    Some of their setting prescriptions are weird, but that is not your main malfunction.
     
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  4. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    What did you remove? Some softeners inlet and outlet are the opposite, please confirm flow direction is correct.

    RF Regenerant Flow: DF1b
    CT Control Type: Fd
    C Unit Capacity: 48,000
    H Feedwater hardness: 13 (your actual hardness plus a couple of grains)
    RS Reserve Selection: cr
    DO Day Override: 28
    RT Regen Time: 2:00am
    BW: 8
    BD: 60
    RR: 6
    BF: 22 assuming .25 BLFC button, you will need to confirm this.
    FM Flow Meter Type: t1.2

    As to the hardness hovering at 6 GPG, lets do a quick test. Put the unit into regeneration, skip the BW cycle and go into BD (Brine Draw), wait 1 minute, then taste the water at the drain, it must not be salty. Do this before you do anything else then give us feedback on what you find.
     
  5. noimad

    noimad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
    houston
    Thanks you guys very much for the quick replies! I will do the BD test tomorrow and see what I've got going on as far as how long it takes, and if the water is salty coming out of the drain.

    Dittohead, I didn't remove anything when I did the install of the new system. The only thing I did is put in pvc pieces to go from 1 inch to 1 1/4 on the inlet and and outlet of the bypass valve. And some pvc pieces to downsize on the flush line, which goes from the valve to my sewer connection on the house because the polytube the old system used was smaller than the outlet on the valve. I did confirm the inlet and outlet were correct when I plumbed it in. But if you guys are having me check the brine draw, It's leading me to guess that maybe when I used smaller polytube than what was coming out of the drain line might be a bottleneck and it isn't flushing properly. But we will see after tomorrow's test.
     
  6. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    You said there was another water softener installed which the 64K system now replaces. Since you don't know the brand, can you post a photo of the old system?
     
  7. noimad

    noimad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
    houston
    Ok, so I did the Brine Draw, and I'm not sure how better to describe this, but if you look at the attached image you will see where the water started in the salt tank (a little more than half full). After about 15 minutes it dropped about 12 inches. Based on where the water started, I'm not sure what you would consider to be half way down the air check valve. The entire salt tank is about 33 inches tall. The starting water level was at about 18-19 inches from the bottom. After 15 minutes it was down to about 7-8 inches from the bottom (and the salt tank does have a white plastic piece base the bottom)

    The water coming out of the discharge tube was definitely very salty, even after 15 minutes.

    I have also attached a few images of the old system.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Was that as far down as the brine level went? That sounds about right.

    It is important that that water was not salty during the first few minutes of BD. Check for that. How long before the drain water gets salty. Maybe 5 or 10 minutes would be expected. If one minute, that would identify a problem.

    Also, some salt should be above the water level after the brine fill.

    Old unit was Clack, and it has the same in and out as the Fleck.

    With the observations so far, I see no clue as to why you are not getting better softening, at least for your cold water a little after having regenerated.
     
  9. noimad

    noimad New Member

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    Apr 6, 2021
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    The water was salty the whole time of the BD. I checked it right away, around 5 minutes, and at 15 minutes, and salty all three times.
     
  10. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    Good. That identifies what is screwed up.

    You have the wrong adapter for your distributor tube diameter, or you are missing the adapter, or you are missing the o-ring, or the o-ring is dislocated.

    In your service manual, see the parts list including choice of distributor adapters.

    20 ................. 1 ......... 61419-02 ............... Kit, 32mm Distributor, Adapter
    21 ................. 1 ......... 61419-01 ............... Kit, 1.315" Distributor, Adapter
    22 ................. 1 ......... 61419 .................... Kit, 1.05" Distributor Adapter
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
  11. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I figured, this is a common problem with companies not knowing how to assemble the valves correctly. Remove the valve from the tank and take pictures of the riser tube and the underside of the valve where the tube goes insde the valve. The tube is likely too short, or undersized, or as stated above, missing parts. here is a video on a very similar design, you will get the point. I have not had time to redo this video on the 5810/12 but I will do this in the near future.
     
  12. noimad

    noimad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
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    That is a great video explaining it. So I pulled the head off of the softener, and from it looks like to me the distributor tube size matches the distributor. There is an o-ring in there. Now, I don't know if the height of the riser tube is correct or not. It sticks up slightly out of the tank. I have attached the pictures. Let me know if you see anything out of place or wrong. Not pictured, as I already took it off for the pictures, it also has the white plastic distributor screen.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. noimad

    noimad New Member

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    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
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    And just the size of the tube vs distributor I've attached those measurements.
     

    Attached Files:

  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
    IL
    I don't see the mismatch I was expecting.

    LR-44 or 357 are some of the batteries that most of the digital calipers.

    The caliper has inside-measurement jaws, shown at the top of your photos.
     
  15. noimad

    noimad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
    houston
    Yea, it looks like it it is the eLR-44 battery. Didn't know it was dead until I grabbed it out of the drawer. I didn't even notice the inside jaws either....only the 2nd time I've ever used it...lol . Good to know. But it does look like it is a 33mm?
     
  16. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2013
    Location:
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    I was thinking 1.315 inches OD, which is 33.401 mm. That is the OD of nominal 1 inch PVC.

    I am not sure of the size of nominal 32 mm pipe. I think that may be a DIN standard. It seems to either be the same as nominal 1-1/4 pipe (OD=1.660) or is similarly sized. So you don't have that.

    I usually buy about 5 of the batteries via Ebay at a time.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  17. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2012
    Occupation:
    Water systems designer, R&D, Technical Director
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Hard to tell from the pictures. The riser pipe can be either 1.315 or 32MM. The valve is set up for 1.315 (1" PVC pipe size). If the riser is 32mm, then it will not fit tightly around the o-ring and you will have the problems you are experiencing. 32mm and 1.315 are nearly identical, very difficult to tell by looking at it. We have our own pipe manufactured and we do the 32mm in Blue, the 1.315 in black so there is a lower likelihood of mixing them, also so we can tell which pipe is inside when people call from the field. That pipe looks like ABS, which is fine, but it is usually the same color... If you are still getting salty water to the drain immediately during regeneration and the riser tube is correct and the o-ring is fine, then it would likely be the seal/spacer kit inside the valve. You could experiment by flipping it upside down.
     
  18. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    I would feel better if you used a cheap TDS meter rather than taste to time when saltiness arrives. Somebody on a low-salt diet could be extra-sensitive to the taste of salt.
     
  19. noimad

    noimad New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2021
    Location:
    houston
    Ok, I went ahead and got new batteries for my caliper just to be sure. The OD of the tube shows as 33.4mm. The ID of the distributor shows as 33.7.....so technically it is .3 of a mm difference. Not sure if that is enough for the o-ring to leak?

    I did a brine draw again just to be sure there as well. I get fresh water for about 10 seconds, then it immediately goes salty for the rest of the time.

    I watched the video on the 5810 rebuild, but It mentions the seal and spacer kit doesn't have a top and bottom, so would flipping it really make a difference?
     
  20. Bannerman

    Bannerman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2014
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    This signifies leakage past the O-ring at the top of the riser.

    The riser tube is normally cut-off flush with the top of the tank. Since your riser tube extends above the tank, it could become deformed from downward force when the control valve is threaded securely onto the tank.
     
  21. noimad

    noimad New Member

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    Apr 6, 2021
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    Hmm...ok, so you think if I am able to cut it flush it might be ok? I did notice the top of the tube looked slightly deformed....but not a lot (you can see it in the picture that I posted where I measured it). I'm not sure if that looks like enough to be causing leakage. But I might be able to find a way to cut it flush...
     
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