Complete loss of flow

[Techy]

Bought this house a year ago. Water would intermittently stop flowing for just a few seconds, and then start back up a few times a day. No biggie, just a hiccup. We could live with that.
Started getting longer before it turned back on, so we called a plumber. He said it was the pressure switch, replaced it, charged us $200, and left. It worked for about 45 minutes. Same problem came back.
So, we researched a little more, and all I can find is that it's the pressure switch. We opened the box that covers our well, took off the cap, ran the water, and watched to see what would happen.
*Turn water on. Pump not running. 45-50 lbs on gauge.
*Water stops flowing. Pump doesn't turn on. 40ish lbs on gauge.
*Wait a while (10-20 minutes), pressure on gauge doesn't actually move at all. Pump turns on and water pressure immediately returns. Pressure slowly rises to 50-55.
*Pump shuts off and pressure continues.
**Repeat the process, except flick the switch when water stops flowing. Pump kicks on, stays on until pressure comes back to 50-55. Water stops flowing at about 40ish on gauge.

If we just leave it alone, we lose water pressure in the house 6-8 times a day, for 20ish minutes at a time.

If it matters, we believe our pressure tank is underground. There is a Schrader valve sticking up out of the ground on a copper line. We cannot put air in nor get it to release pressure by pushing down on the valve stem.

 

[Valveman]

The automatic overload in the motor is tripping. These overloads will reset themselves in a few minutes and water comes back on. Sometime soon it just won't come back on at all. You need a new motor. You have cycled that pump as many times as it was made to survive. When it starts tripping the overload you are on borrowed time. It will quit you at the worst possible time, so you need to get it fixed. Then look at getting a PK1A kit to replace your underground tank, because the tank is also probably bad, which is also caused buy too much cycling. The 4.5 gallon size tank in the PK1A kit is so small you should not need to bury it. That way you can check the air charge and replace it easily when needed.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Techy]

It comes up to 50psi, and the pump shuts off just fine.
The pump comes back on once the gauge finally gets back down to 30ish psi.
The problem seems to be that we have no flow between 40 and 30.

 

[Reach4]

You want to use a clamp-around ammeter around one hot wire at the pressure switch or breaker box to measure the pump current when pumping properly, and when the pump should be pumping, but you get no flow.

Do you have a well casing extending above ground? What is the casing diameter? Do you have a pitless adapter?

Do you have a pump control box (I am not talking about the pressure switch)?

Regarding the underground pressure tank, I would dig down and see what is at the base of that copper pipe. It could be that your valve stem extender is loose, or there is some other problem that you could identify.

 

[Valveman]

If the "water is not flowing" your gauge should read zero. If no water is coming out of any faucet the pressure is zero and your gauge is stuck at 40.

 

[Techy]

If I have a pitless adapter, I wouldn't know what it looks like. We just moved in a year ago.
The well casing extends about a foot above ground. It's a 5" well.
Also not sure where the pump control switch is, if we have one.
I can feel a very slight vibration from the casing when the pump is on. When the switch is on, the pump runs. When it's off, it doesnt.

 

[Techy]

If the "water is not flowing" your gauge should read zero. If no water is coming out of any faucet the pressure is zero and your gauge is stuck at 40.

Gauge is at 40 when the flow stops. Gauge slowly falls, and when it reaches around 30, pump kicks on.
If we shut off power at the breaker after the flow stops, the pressure still slowly falls. Eventually, it does hit 0.
The way I understand it, the gauge is so WE know what pressure the switch is feeling. The switch should work regardless of whether the gauge works.

 

[Bannerman]

You said the loss of pressure occurs while the pressure is dropping from 40 psi to 30 psi. Once the pump is activated at 30 psi, does water flow and pressure then resume and continue even between 30 > 40 psi?

I suspect the small diameter line which supplies pressure to the pressure switch (and likely the pressure gauge) may be partially (mostly) blocked so the pressure switch and gauge are not sensing pressure change as rapidly as change is occurring. If the actual pressure is not being sensed correctly, then water flowing to fixtures could be draining the pressure tank completely, but as the PS & gauge continue to sense >30 psi, the pump is not being activated and so there is loss of water flow.

Once the pressure sensed by the PS slowly leaks down to 30 psi, then the pump is being activated but for the same reason, the pressure in the system may be actually higher than 50 psi when the PS eventually turns the pump off.

 

[Techy]

You said the loss of pressure occurs while the pressure is dropping from 40 psi to 30 psi. Once the pump is activated at 30 psi, does water flow and pressure then resume and continue even between 30 > 40 psi?
Yes, once the pump comes on, either manually or by pressure switch, we have immediate flow at the fixtures.
I suspect the small diameter line which supplies pressure to the pressure switch (and likely the pressure gauge) may be partially (mostly) blocked so the pressure switch and gauge are not sensing pressure change as rapidly as change is occurring. If the actual pressure is not being sensed correctly, then water flowing to fixtures could be draining the pressure tank completely, but as the PS & gauge continue to sense >30 psi, the pump is not being activated and so there is loss of water flow.

Once the pressure sensed by the PS slowly leaks down to 30 psi, then the pump is being activated but for the same reason, the pressure in the system may be actually higher than 50 psi when the PS eventually turns the pump off.

This makes sense. There is a black line that feeds the PS and gauge. We'll look into whether that's plugged before we start throwing parts and money at it.

 

[Valveman]

Yes that is very likely your problem since we know the pressure gauge will go to zero.

 

[Bannerman]

Where does that black-line connect so as to obtain pressure? A blockage may not only occur in the line so also check the fittings and openings where the tube connects to ensure they are not blocked.

Suggest also repairing/replacing the Schrader valve so you can occasionally check and adjust the pressure within the buried pressure tank (unless you plan to install the PK1A kit that Valveman recommended).

 

[Techy]

Bannerman and Valveman, you were a tremendous help.

It WAS the small diameter line that sends pressure to the switch. It was filled with plain water, which had corroded the metal fittings on the ends.
We had an awesome well company come out and replace it with a new hose, this one filled with something that doesn't corrode metal or freeze.