Combo PRV and pressure tank tee?

[Gravydog]

I'm going to add a whole-house iron filter system for my daughter's well. I'd like to freshen up the plumbing at the well head as it's probably all original from the late 70's. It has a combination pressure reducing valve and tee to a pressure tank (which I haven't tested yet) plus ports for the pressure switch and a pressure valve on the bottom (not pictured because it rusted off!) I found opinions online that you don't need the PRV on a well but then again this is for a manufactured home with gray polybutylene plumbing so I think I really do. I'm pretty good at scouring the internet but I can't find anything that looks like this combo setup I have. Have you seen anything like what I have pictured? Any idea on a manufacturer or a really specific term for one of these to help in my search? I would really appreciate any advice, thanks!

Rob

 

[Reach4]

I think you are looking at a check valve, rather than a PRV.

I think you have a submersible pump, and the only check valve should be down at the submersible pump. So you would expect to remove the check valve in your photo.

There is a thing called a "tank tee" but you don't necessarily need that. The tank tee has a place to screw a pressure gauge and pressure tank and drain valve and potentially a relief valve.

 

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[Valveman]

Just past the un-needed check valve looks like a home made Cycle Stop Valve. it can't be a pressure reducing valve or the pump would have dead-headed and burned up quickly. I would really like to know what it says on that red tag?

Anyways, what you need is a PK1A kit as it has everything you need to replace all the controls. It also comes with a pressure relief valve as they are more to keep the pump from dead-heading than to prevent high pressure on the lines.

PK1A Pside-Kick Pressure Tank Kit – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

Buy It! Interactive Animation Installation Video General Information Typical Applications Specifications Dimensions Installation Instructions Troubleshooting VFD Controller Replacement WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including nickel, which is known to the State of California...

cyclestopvalves.com

 

[Sarg]

Just a couple comments that may assist. ( I also have poly-b crap )
Your pressure switch controls the water pressure ( 30/50, 40/60, etc ) You do not need a prv. You need to install a water pressure gauge to actually know how the system is operating.
If the plan is to upgrade you will need conversion fittings for the poly-b. I have used pex-b in my upgrades or leak repairs.
I agree with Reach4 .... looks like an unneeded check valve which was standard practice .... mine was the same way and I suspect it was done that way to hold pressure at the tank even if the check valve at the pump went bad ( which creates other problems )
I replaced my system several years ago with Valveman's guidance. I replaced the check valve with a cycle stop valve.
Another suggestion is to use ball valves .... Not compression valves .... much better and trouble free in comparison.
And .... everything has a lifespan ... if you're taking it apart .... now is the time to replace it all.

 

[Gravydog]

Thanks for everyone's input. I spent the morning getting to know cycle stop valves, which I was unaware of as a layman. What I learned is that a CSV IS a pressure reducing valve but it has an internal bypass that allows a low flow of water to reach the pressure switch and fill the tank when demand stops. Now I think what I have may actually be a prehistoric CSV as it is all-in-one and does have a bell with an adjusting bolt and the pressure switch is on the outlet side of it and the pressure tank is also connected to it.

Her house is an hour away so I have to drive out there and do more investigating and look for numbers, tags, etc. She says when she turns on a faucet there is good pressure which then dwindles down and then comes back up to a steady flow. My reading leads me to believe that this can fit the operation of a CSV. I just ordered two pressure gauges to put one before and one after to monitor just what is going on. I also want to relieve the system pressure and see what if any air pressure is in the tank. Maybe it's all functioning correctly?

There is an overpressure relief valve teed into the outlet pipe of all of this. I want to see the pressure rating on it and see if I want to go lower to protect the weak piping in the house. The last thing I want to chase is water leaks under the house!

A big worry is that anything I take apart for inspection or to make modifications to has to be put back in working order the same day. Will I bring all the right tools, etc.? Will something break? I guess we'll see!

Rob

 

[Gravydog]

UPDATE I went out there today and installed pressure gauges before and after the valves and now I have a better idea what's going on.

Valveman, you asked what is on the red tag? The red tag says: No. 7F8 P.R.V. Model 200-1. On the body casting is "Jacuzzi Bros". Google knows nothing of these numbers but interestingly, there's an identical valve for sale on eBay. Here is a photo, and it's just the same as what I have on this system.

The small port is for the pressure switch and the large bottom port (as pictured) goes to the pressure tank. I see the strainer cap but I'm afraid to loosen it because if something breaks, no water for my daughter until I get it handled somehow. After I installed the gauges and ran the pump I am getting 80-90 psi from the pump depending on demand and 50-54 psi to the house, depending on demand. As soon as I shut off demand, the outlet pressure jumps to 60-62 and after several seconds the pressure switch turns off the pump and its gauge immediately drops to 60 as well, suggesting to me that this likely is a CSV and that there is a small open path through it to relieve the pressure on the pump side when it stops . When I again open a spigot in the house, the outlet pressure gauge slowly falls to near 25 psi before the pump comes on again when it jumps back to 50. I'm thinking the orifice in the pressure switch (40/60) is clogged, explaining the very slow response to rising and falling pressure. I'm just going to replace that crusty old switch.

I tried also today to check the pressure tank and I don't know exactly what's going on there. With all pressure out of the system, I depressed the Schrader valve and there was no pressure. With the system running again, I again pressed the valve and still there was no pressure! I haven't tried yet adding air to the tank to see if I can gain any insight. I'll do that on Monday and replace the pressure switch and see what I've got then.

Rob

 

[Sarg]

Assuming the pressure tank is a bladder type there is water pressure below and air pressure above. With the tank void of all water & water pressure ........ the air via the schrader valve should be set at around 2 or 3 psi lower than the start of the system i.e. 27-28 for a 30/50 switch ..... need to check when your pump actually does click on.
Also when I had issues with irratic operation I found the ¼" pipe nipple that connected the switch to the system had become clogged with "crap".
I'll say it again ....... be faster and more effective to upgrade the entire system.

Also --- It's rather confusing you have a PRV on a well system when the switch controls the water pressure ( Used to throttle back a overpowered pump ? I hope @ Valveman can clarify. )

 

[Valveman]

It is not just a prv. That is an old Agua Genie made by Jacuzzi. I just didn't recognize it from the angle. It is very similar to a CSV but the bypass closes at high pressure, which the purpose was to eliminate the need for a pressure relief valve. Although is worked very similar to a Cycle Stop Valve. Was the closest thing to "prior art" that existed when we were getting the patents on the CSV. When Farnklin bought out Jacuzzi they discontinued the Aqua Genie because it is a disruptive product. I'll bet the date code shows it is from the 70's or 80's. Even though the Aqua Genie had a flaw or two, it was very close to the same as a CSV and made pump systems last a long long time, which is "disruptive" to the pump industry just like a CSV.

I am amazed someone has one for sale on the Internet. But you would be much better off getting a Cycle Stop Valve that doesn't close at high pressure. The CSV1A would be a good replacement for the Aqua Genie, and the PK1A kit has everything needed including a new tank.

PK1A Pside-Kick Pressure Tank Kit – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

Buy It! Interactive Animation Installation Video General Information Typical Applications Specifications Dimensions Installation Instructions Troubleshooting VFD Controller Replacement WARNING: This product can expose you to chemicals including nickel, which is known to the State of California...

cyclestopvalves.com