Catalytic Carbon Filter and Softener (Backwash Cycles & Day Overrides)

[bluelogic]

Hello,

I have a Catalytic Carbon Filter before my Softener. I'm on city water with massive amounts of Chloramine. The dealer set the day to override to 7 days for the softener and 5 days for the Catalytic Carbon Filter. He left me instructions on how to change the time for the backwash cycles and told me they can't be the same time. I set the carbon filter to 2 AM and the softener to 4:30 AM (they are both in my garage on the other side of the house). The softener is set to demand regen as well and he said it will only backwash at the correct time. Does that sound right? Also, do the day overrides sound right? Both value heads are Fleck 5810s.

Thanks
Bluelogic

 

[Reach4]

Softener day override would be good at 30 days, because you have no iron.

Carbon backwash is maybe 10 minutes or a little more. Depending on your schedule, I would put the carbon backwash to maybe 2:30, and the softener to maybe 2:50. At those settings, you may not have to change the clocks for DST, if you don't choose to do so.

I see you are a Mac user.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bannerman]

As your softener is utilizing demand (metered) regeneration initiation as is appropriate, but as the installer programmed the softener's DO for only 7 days, just wondering what size (total capacity) softener was purchased and what capacity and salt setting has been programmed?

 

[bluelogic]

Softner is 1.5 CF but running at 6 pounds/CF. The installer said I could run 14 days but doesn't recommend a month setting because people tend to start forgetting to check the softener. He is standing his ground on the Carbon filter especially since the cycle is so short and it is working in a high chloramine environment.

The installer said I could make the scheduler tighter between the two but mentioned that the manual says there should be a 2-hour gap between the two.

My other question may be my lack of knowledge or not understanding the logic but if a demand reg was to occur the softener would use the time scheduled to regen correct?

 

[ditttohead]

Carbon regen frequency has nothing to do with chloramine levels. It is an adsorptive media, not an actual physical filter. If you have excessive sediment then more frequent backwashing may be important. In general backwashing the carbon tank every 7-28 days is more than adequate. There are arguments for less frequent backwashing but these claims of bed disruption... tend be be overstated.

or the softener, set it to 28 days overrides, if you go on vacation for a month, it will keep itself clean. Dont overthink it. As to regen time, set the carbon system to backwash 1/2 our before the softener, keep it simple.

 

[bluelogic]

Hey Ditttohead, I always appreciate your advice. So I should:

Set Carbon to 28 days
Set Softener to 28 days

Test water in 27 days for Chloramine. The softener will demand regen.

Set Carbon to 2:30 am and softner to regen at 3 am

Is my understanding on demand based regen correct? The softener will only regen at 2:30 am if I set it to that?

Thanks
Bluelogic

 

[Bannerman]

With demand regeneration, once the softener's programmed capacity has been consumed, regeneration will be delayed until the time you program. You mention 3 am but it may be any time that will not overlap with the carbon system backwash. As softener regeneration may take 2-2.5 hrs, the start time should be early enough to ensure the cycle has concluded before anyone normally rises in the morning and starts to use water.

6 lbs salt per cuft (9 lbs total) will regenerate 30,000 grains capacity in your 1.5 cuft softener. The programmed Capacity should, therefore, be set to 30. Assuming the softener's BLFC is 0.25 gpm (normally stated on a label located nearby to the brine connection), the Brine Fill setting should be 12 minutes to place 3 gallons of water into the brine tank. Each 1 gallon will dissolve 3lbs salt.

A carbon filter is less commonly set for demand backwash but is most often set to backwash every xx days.

 

[bluelogic]

BLFC = 0.25 gpm
Capacity = 30

The cycle was configured to BackWash = 10 mins, Draw 60 minutes, Rapid Rinse 6 Minutes, Brine Fill = 14 Minutes

 

[Bannerman]

Good!

You indicate 1.5 hrs regeneration time. Some softeners are programmed with BF first, which would then require a delay for salt to dissolve, thereby extending the regen time requirement. Two backwashes would also result in a longer cycle. Your 1.5 hours is appropriate.

As a softener when not removing iron is usually sized to provide the household with soft water requirements for 7 days or longer, I initially suspected the 7 day DO setting programmed by the installer, was used instead of programming the appropriate Capacity and salt settings.

If you know your water hardness and average water usage, it would be an easy matter to calculate the expected regeneration interval.

For instance, if there are 3 people, typically using 60 gal each per day, and if the water hardness is say 15 grains per gallon, then the daily hardness requirements would be (3 X 60 X 15) = 2,700 grains/day. With 30K usable capacity, then the expected regeneration frequency would be approx (30 K / 2,700) = 11 days.

 

[bluelogic]

2 x 75 x 20 = 3,000 grain/day = 10 days; however, ditttohead above mentioned I could go with 28 days on both. 28 will never happen on the softener but the carbon filter is possible.

 

[Bannerman]

The DO setting for the softener, is the maximum limit the softener will go without a regeneration cycle being performed. The DO setting will generally not actually be used unless you are away for an extended time and not enough water is consumed within that time to cause a regeneration cycle to occur by demand

Since a carbon filter is usually not utilizing a demand (metered) setting to cause backwash to occur, whatever number of days you program, will be the actual backwash frequency regardless of how much water is utilized during that period.

 

[ditttohead]

Backwashing a carbon is for cleaning the bed of silt, sand, dirt, etc and to reclassify the bed so as to prevent channeling which can occur over extended periods of time. Channeling can occur but this is usually after many months or even years, not 28 days. Many companies will claim they need to be backwashed more frequently. In general there are no negative affects of backwashing more frequently other than wasting water, there are also no positive affects. Consider that many commercial carbon tanks, filters etc. got for annual replacements without backwashing... these tanks and filters can get a bit nasty after this long of a time but they are still totally functional.