Cast iron sewer trap + pipe encased in concrete.

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by SIWEL56AA, Nov 19, 2020.

  1. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Active Member

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    A bonus I like about my house trap is that any backup can drain out to the street vent before backing up into a shower drain. It's never happened to me, but I've seen it happen. We have combined sewers so a storm can cause the sewer level to rise.
     
    Sylvan likes this.
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    What does a street vent look like?
     
  3. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    While I am not going to turn to liking building traps, I now see positives that I had not seen before. Very good points. The downside of clog-point and hard to rod the sewer are why I am not switching to be an advocate. That flammable fumes thing was compelling. I don't think that is common, but I could see it happening.

    I have septic, so it is not directly relevant to me.
     
  4. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    It takes a certain mindset to take away protection to save a few dollars for the price of a running trap


    Although on a storm line a single cleanout (P TRAP) is allowed I use a double running trap so it is easier to snake or water Jet up or downstream

    This is what separates those who take plumbing seriously and not just dabbling in it installing bare minimum code requirements

     

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  5. DIYorBust

    DIYorBust Active Member

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  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    They sometimes put sewer vents in yards in California, but they may be more overflows. They are named after some California city.
     
  7. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Then the whole house traps in NYC can be running traps? Or is that for just storm drain traps?
     
  8. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Unfortunately, trap seal loss in boiler rooms can and do cause fires and some explosions did occur when either the boiler or the order types of water heaters fired up

    Not very common but when it happens people wonder how it did occur

    Sewer gases are highly flammable and carcinogenic

    As I got older I realized pulling 3 and 4-foot wrenches may not be as easy so I looked into the expert witness gig and there is a gold mine testifying against incompetent contractors

    The problem with a public sewer connection is you have no idea what some moron may have poured down their sewer line

    One of the cases I had was the Russians have a compound in Riverdale (Bronx) and they used gasoline as a cleaning fluid and poured the old gasoline down a drain

    A ROTO company did the main sewer stoppage in a one-family home across from the Russians and the idiot forgot to put a fits all plug on the street side of the running trap

    There was a slight rain and the gasoline vapors entered the lady's basement and her gas driver came on and cause a major fire. She and her 6-year-old son did escape. I was hired to replace the furnace and repipe the gas lines and testified how the ROTO company was responsible ( we could not sue the Russians)


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-blasts/6c7525de-807c-4d16-a53f-a84c597904fd/


    and

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisville_sewer_explosions



     
    Terry likes this.
  9. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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  10. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Its not a wonder of why they were /are installed . But I think they are not widely used outside a handful of states. Im not so sure it would even be legal everywhere to put house traps. and Jim caps are for temporary use dont take place of ibco or blind plug. not many of our citys allow any stormwater into sewer.
     
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  11. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Other than NYC IPC and upc not only dont require house traps but they are Specificaly prohibited from being installed Maybe thats why we dont put them in they appear to be illegal. i didnt see pictures of cracked sewer lines or explanation just code chapters prohibiting them
     
  12. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Correct the Jim caps were replaced
     
  13. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Running traps are for the main sewers Storm / Sanitary.

    Old code required that a storm trap had to be 40 pipe diameters upstream before connecting to a sanitary line

    No vent required on a storm trap
     
  14. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    OK. I am now thinking that you would class the trap you showed in #24 as a running trap. I had had too narrow view of what a running trap is.
     
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  15. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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  16. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    Storm trap


    [​IMG]
     
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  17. Jeff H Young

    Jeff H Young In the Trades

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    Why are all those traps prohibitted? seems like a good idea but cant install them even if I wanted to unless I was someplace without codes.
     
  18. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    I would like to meet a code official and ask why they are against main sewer traps and would allow Cheater vents

    I can understand why they would want to eliminate a trap that is outside the building subject to freezing which I did come across from a home built in 1860. Other than possible freeze up I would like to know why they would be against it
     
  19. Reach4

    Reach4 Well-Known Member

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    Main objection to whole building traps is they tend to cause clogs and make cleaning the sewer lines difficult. Plus it vents the city sewer through roof vents of the houses, although that could be addressed if the clogging and cleaning things were not problems.
     
  20. Sylvan

    Sylvan Still learning

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    plumbing - fire suppression - boiler inspector
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    New York
    Actually, a running trap is very easy to either snake (rod) or water Jet and use a wet-dry to remove debris (coins, jewelry), etc from the belly of the trap

    By having a double opening it is very easy to go up and downstream and there is a lot of space before the outlet or inlet are blocked

    Funny how people will have the oil changed for their car, have an HVAC system checked yearly but think once the plumbing is installed they take it for granted it will never need service

    Once you educate the accounts you will have very little downtime

    For example when I first started out I used to offer a discount for a yearly cleaning of all the leader lines and yard drains and main sewer being snaked and the main house trap cleaned (WET DRY or Laddle)

    What I did was schedule several jobs a day for October and November for jetting and snaking because of the fall season and leaves blocking lines

    Each call is a minimum of $750 and on average it takes one man less than an hour

    I had two accounts around the corner from each other and I charged by the leader /floor/yard/area drains $125 each

    One lady has 23 drains and it took me almost 4 hours and the other account had 18 drains and took about 3 hours ...7 hour day $5,125 per day and I have 30+ houses not to mention old age homes and the commercial accounts

    Because I was doing it once a year the actual jetting of each drain was normally less than 15 minutes the set it took most of the time

    The first time I did it took over an hr a drain as this house never had routine drain cleaning and has a total of 23 leader lines and it belonged to the Gambles (Procter and Gamble) below

    The reason I was able to convince them to do it yearly is their copper leader lines were blocked and split open from a freeze-up Behind the bushes I installed cleanout Tee's to law easier access to the storm lines

    I told them to call a roofer I know to clear the gutters and the next day I would do the leader lines or I would show up the same time the roofer was there and he would pass my hoses down the leader lines


    [​IMG]




    Look how easy it would be to run a Jetter hose or 3/4" cable in either direction


    [​IMG]
     
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