How would you repair?

[Bschooly]

While digging a new flower bed, I noticed that the sewer line exiting the house has corroded to such a point that there are several holes about an inch or so in size.

I've ordered 5' of black 3" ABS pipe and fernco fittings and the plan is to replace the 3" section. Not sure if I'll remove the hub on the house end or simply cut the pipe beyond the hub with enough space for flexible coupling. I'd rather not have to deal with two lead filled ends.

What is odd to me is seems the bit after the takeout transitions to 5"piper and is encased in concrete. The house was built in the mid 60's. Should I replace more pipe than the 3" section? What would you do? As far as I can tell the rest of the pipe looks ok but there is definite signs of rust elsewhere.

Bill

 

[Breplum]

overall the pipe is in the realm of being at the end of useful life...It is not proper practice to ever encase pipe with concrete unless there is a cushioned barrier to prevent contact. Concrete causes deterioration of cast iron over the long term.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Bschooly]

Yes, you are correct. But there's a practicality aspect to this. I'm a perfectionist and while I'd prefer replacing all the DWV I don't think I've reached that point or need yet. Elsewhere, for the most part I don't yet have a problem. I guess I'm answering my own original question. I was curious though about the concrete. Maybe it was a previous repair.

I guess I'll stick to the original plan. Maybe this will be someone else's problem in the future.

 

[Sylvan]

Anything but Fernco

A shielded coupling like Mission is ideal.

Some civilized plumbing codes will not allow Fernco

While its open consider taking a video inspection of the rest of the waste piping.

 

[Bschooly]

Hmm, not familiar with Mission but certainly looks more substantial than Fernco.

I actually decided to have a company come out to evaluate the DWV pipes throughout the whole house. They'll provide a report and I'll know what I'm dealing with. I haven't had any draining issues except I have one toilet that is intolerant of too much (normal) solid waste. Anyway we will see next week. I'll report in then...

 

[John Gayewski]

Replace as much as possible of it. Fernco is for underground work. They make stainless sleeves that go around fernco's if you think they are a problem, but I've dug up a lot of them and haven't seen an issue. Where I have seen an issue with fernco's is above ground where people are using them in a stack or horizontally to hold weight. Over time they stretch, but underground they aren't holding any weight as there should be gravel bedding under the pipe.

 

[Fitter30]

70 year old drain pipe. Might also think a about water line. Time to budget for complete replacement.

 

[Sylvan]

705.4.3 Mechanical Joint Coupling​

Mechanical joint couplings for hubless pipe and fittings shall consist of an elastomeric sealing sleeve and a metallic shield that comply with CISPI 310, ASTM C 1277 or ASTM C 1540. The elastomeric sealing sleeve shall conform to ASTM C 564 or CSA B602 and shall be provided with a center stop. Mechanical joint couplings shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

 

[John Gayewski]

705.4.3 Mechanical Joint Coupling​

Mechanical joint couplings for hubless pipe and fittings shall consist of an elastomeric sealing sleeve and a metallic shield that comply with CISPI 310, ASTM C 1277 or ASTM C 1540. The elastomeric sealing sleeve shall conform to ASTM C 564 or CSA B602 and shall be provided with a center stop. Mechanical joint couplings shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

The plumbing code only covers building piping.

 

[Sylvan]

The plumbing code only covers building piping.

Not really, as the building code covers the type of materials going to the main sewers as well as water lines.

The DEP governs how the connections are made to the water main and sewers

Sometimes, there is a conflict with the various codes, so we use the most stringent \

The problem with unshielded couplings is that the piping settles there is a bellow at the weakest connection

 

[John Gayewski]

Not really, as the building code covers the type of materials going to the main sewers as well as water lines.

The DEP governs how the connections are made to the water main and sewers

Sometimes, there is a conflict with the various codes, so we use the most stringent \

The problem with unshielded couplings is that the piping settles there is a bellow at the weakest connection

It's pretty easy to trick a dumbass lawyer about plumbing, but trying to tell a plumber about plumbing by quoting building code outside of a building ain't gonna work.

Fernco is for below ground connections. A shield can be added to them if someone is insisting on a stronger connection. Like I said I've dug up a bunch of fernco's and haven't seen an issue. The issues I've seen underground with piping is when people dont use a solid rock bedding. Back in the day they would dig their ditches deep and and bricks or wood at intervals in the piping to support it and then try to backfill under it with sand. This is a terrible way to do it. Now that we have sloping lasers we don't need any propping up of the pipe just slope the rock ditch with clean rock and last the pipe directly onto it. A fernco doesn't hold anything other than water out and some incidental movement, but they can also handle some deflection. They are fine alone underground. Just ask anyone who really knows.

 

[Sylvan]

It's pretty easy to trick a dumbass lawyer about plumbing, but trying to tell a plumber about plumbing by quoting building code outside of a building ain't gonna work.

Fernco is for below ground connections. A shield can be added to them if someone is insisting on a stronger connection. Like I said I've dug up a bunch of fernco's and haven't seen an issue. The issues I've seen underground with piping is when people dont use a solid rock bedding. Back in the day they would dig their ditches deep and and bricks or wood at intervals in the piping to support it and then try to backfill under it with sand. This is a terrible way to do it. Now that we have sloping lasers we don't need any propping up of the pipe just slope the rock ditch with clean rock and last the pipe directly onto it. A fernco doesn't hold anything other than water out and some incidental movement, but they can also handle some deflection. They are fine alone underground. Just ask anyone who really knows.

I would love to follow you and go to court and have you try to justify using crapola and try to convince a jury how YOU feel it is ok

Where is the stop on a Fernco or the shielded coupling

705.4.3 Mechanical Joint Coupling​

Mechanical joint couplings for hubless pipe and fittings shall consist of an elastomeric sealing sleeve and a metallic shield that comply with CISPI 310, ASTM C 1277 or ASTM C 1540. The elastomeric sealing sleeve shall conform to ASTM C 564 or CSA B602 and shall be provided with a center stop. Mechanical joint couplings shall be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions."


Reading above, I did not see any remarks saying "it's ok if not used outside a building?

Thanks to "plumbers" like you, I made an amazing living testifying in various locations about code and proper installations

I wonder what the "compacting strength of a Fernco is in a parking lot?


John, a word of advice

Stick with your type of plumbing and hope you're not sued, having an 'expert' testifying against you, as you will lose

 

[Sylvan]

It's pretty easy to trick a dumbass lawyer about plumbing, but trying to tell a plumber about plumbing by quoting building code outside of a building ain't gonna work.

Fernco is for below ground connections. A shield can be added to them if someone is insisting on a stronger connection. Like I said I've dug up a bunch of fernco's and haven't seen an issue. The issues I've seen underground with piping is when people dont use a solid rock bedding. Back in the day they would dig their ditches deep and and bricks or wood at intervals in the piping to support it and then try to backfill under it with sand. This is a terrible way to do it. Now that we have sloping lasers we don't need any propping up of the pipe just slope the rock ditch with clean rock and last the pipe directly onto it. A fernco doesn't hold anything other than water out and some incidental movement, but they can also handle some deflection. They are fine alone underground. Just ask anyone who really knows.

John

The plumbing code only covers building piping.

Not really, as the building code covers the type of materials going to the main sewers as well as water lines.

The DEP governs how the connections are made to the water main and sewers

Sometimes, there is a conflict with the various codes, so we use the most stringent \

The problem with unshielded couplings is that the piping settles there is a bellow at the weakest connection

never try to snow a snowman YOU are way out of your league. Expert "plumbing" is not for everyone

I guess you think if the inspector did not see it is ok?

What a "rural plumber" does is not even allowed in most cases in a big city.

As you do not know, it is not the lawyer I have to convince, I have to prove my case to a jury and insurance adjuster, and unhandymen use Fernco as they usually cannot measure properly and can't get the joints close enough for more integrity

CLASS IS IN JOHN. Read, you just may learn something

No Hub Couplings Vs. Flexible Couplings: What's The Difference?

No hub couplings and flexible couplings may look a lot alike.However, the surface similarities mask the real differences between these two types of plumbing couplings.Flexible couplings and no hub couplings are different, with different applications and meeting different standards.No hub...

upgradedhome.com

1. Not recommended
   
   Special Joints and Couplings for Drain Piping - UpCodes
   Mechanical unshielded couplings using thermoplastic elastomer gaskets shall not be installed where the operating internal or external temperatures exceed 130°F (54°C) or are below 0°F (-18°C). The pipe shall be supported on both …
   https://www.bing.com/ck/a?!&&p=879f...XBsaW5ncy1uZXctaW5kdXN0cnktc3RhbmRhcmRz&ntb=1
   
   
   Shielded Couplings vs. Unshielded Couplings | Source …
   May 3, 2016 · While they do create a leak-proof seal, unshielded couplings are not recommended to be used in underground applications where shear forces and heavy earth loads are common. CAN YOU AFFORD NOT TO USE A SHIELDED …​

   Unshielded couplings are not recommended for outside drainage12345. They do not provide lateral shear resistance and can sag under stress and age5. Always use the correct coupling for the pipes you are connecting, and check with your inspector when the coupling is used above grade3.

 

[Sylvan]

John, I know this is very complex for some, BUT I am sure if you read this several times, it may enlighten you why an "educated" jury always agrees with my testimony.


If you have any questions, I am sure others will explain what this article is about,


John READ THIS CAREFULLY >>>>In general, flexible couplings are limited to use in stack and vent pipe installations. Most jurisdictions don’t allow flexible unshielded couplings in drain or sewer installations. No building code that we are aware of allows the use of flexible couplings in systems that are under pressure.

Despite what lies you spewed about underground use

No Hub Couplings Vs. Flexible Couplings: What's The Difference?

No hub couplings and flexible couplings may look a lot alike.However, the surface similarities mask the real differences between these two types of plumbing couplings.Flexible couplings and no hub couplings are different, with different applications and meeting different standards.No hub...

upgradedhome.com

 

[John Gayewski]

John, I know this is very complex for some, BUT I am sure if you read this several times, it may enlighten you why an "educated" jury always agrees with my testimony.


If you have any questions, I am sure others will explain what this article is about,


John READ THIS CAREFULLY >>>>In general, flexible couplings are limited to use in stack and vent pipe installations. Most jurisdictions don’t allow flexible unshielded couplings in drain or sewer installations. No building code that we are aware of allows the use of flexible couplings in systems that are under pressure.

Despite what lies you spewed about underground use

No Hub Couplings Vs. Flexible Couplings: What's The Difference?

No hub couplings and flexible couplings may look a lot alike.However, the surface similarities mask the real differences between these two types of plumbing couplings.Flexible couplings and no hub couplings are different, with different applications and meeting different standards.No hub...

upgradedhome.com

Dude ask a lawyer you seem to know some. The building code DOES NOT COVER cival engineering construction. That's why lackey laborers can lay pipe down the side of a road with no license. Ask one of them, they'll tell you all kinds of things about laying pipe that's bullshit. Finding random articles on the internet don't make them binding by law. You see where it says check with your local inspector, that's them saying they are fine to use as long as the inspector doesn't use a more stringent standard.

I would love to testify opposing you. I think a jury would see most of your arguments don't even apply to the situation and are non coherent. Flooding some shit you googled don't make it real.

 

[Sylvan]

Dude ask a lawyer you seem to know some. The building code DOES NOT COVER cival engineering construction. That's why lackey laborers can lay pipe down the side of a road with no license. Ask one of them, they'll tell you all kinds of things about laying pipe that's bullshit. Finding random articles on the internet don't make them binding by law. You see where it says check with your local inspector, that's them saying they are fine to use as long as the inspector doesn't use a more stringent standard.

I would love to testify opposing you. I think a jury would see most of your arguments don't even apply to the situation and are non coherent. Flooding some shit you googled don't make it real.

Good thing you live in the sticks that allow anyone to lay pipe with zero regard to codes and no formal education.

In A "CIVILIZED" area, there are several tests plus a waiting period of 7 -10 years before being eligible to take the 2 part master's exams

Anyone can install plumbing in your area. Considering NYC has the most strigent codes in the nation. Not counting the OSHA of the NYFD rules regarding combustible fuels and the 32 HR class for gas certifications and backflow prevention, along with things a wilderness handyman would never know, such as barrier-free and ADA requirements.


A guy from New Jersey installed a toilet seat in a NYC restaurant, and a lawsuit happened.

I was hired, and I was paid $7,000 to testify. I am sure the unlicensed installer has the same qualification as you have John.



In New York City, property owners are generally responsible for the installation, maintenance, and repair of sewer and water mains that connect their property to the city's main lines, including those outside the foundation. Licensed master plumbers, specifically those with expertise in subsurface work, are typically hired to perform these tasks. The NYC Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) oversees the process, including permitting and inspections.

The above again proves John, you're a liar or just incompetent when spewing nonsense about codes

The Lacky in NYC that install or repair sewers or water mains normally make a minimum of $25,000 a day 2-man crews


John explain how I was able to convince the law firm to pay $7,000 because of this seat

Come on, you know codes, don't you ???

American Standard MightyTuff Plastic White Round Soft Close Toilet Seat​

 

[John Gayewski]

Good thing you live in the sticks that allow anyone to lay pipe with zero regard to codes and no formal education.

In A "CIVILIZED" area, there are several tests plus a waiting period of 7 -10 years before being eligible to take the 2 part master's exams

Anyone can install plumbing in your area. Considering NYC has the most strigent codes in the nation. Not counting the OSHA of the NYFD rules regarding combustible fuels and the 32 HR class for gas certifications and backflow prevention, along with things a wilderness handyman would never know, such as barrier-free and ADA requirements.


A guy from New Jersey installed a toilet seat in a NYC restaurant, and a lawsuit happened.

I was hired, and I was paid $7,000 to testify. I am sure the unlicensed installer has the same qualification as you have John.



In New York City, property owners are generally responsible for the installation, maintenance, and repair of sewer and water mains that connect their property to the city's main lines, including those outside the foundation. Licensed master plumbers, specifically those with expertise in subsurface work, are typically hired to perform these tasks. The NYC Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) oversees the process, including permitting and inspections.

The above again proves John, you're a liar or just incompetent when spewing nonsense about codes

The Lacky in NYC that install or repair sewers or water mains normally make a minimum of $25,000 a day 2-man crews


John explain how I was able to convince the law firm to pay $7,000 because of this seat

Come on, you know codes, don't you ???

American Standard MightyTuff Plastic White Round Soft Close Toilet Seat​

I think you can't see why what your saying is dumb. Laying pipe outside of a building is not considered plumbing according to the powers that be. That is why building codes apply on buildings and cival design is pretty devoid of code. There's no license for laying pipe on the street.

Anyone can hire a plumber to lay pipe on the street, but they don't have to it's laborer work. I don't necessarily agree with it but building codes don't apply either. Those designs are done by cival engineers. Plumbers work on buildings. Same with drain cleaning it's not plumbing.

 

[Sylvan]

Good thing you live in the sticks that allow anyone to lay pipe with zero regard to codes and no formal education.

In A "CIVILIZED" area, there are several tests plus a waiting period of 7 -10 years before being eligible to take the 2 part master's exams

Anyone can install plumbing in your area. Considering NYC has the most strigent codes in the nation. Not counting the OSHA of the NYFD rules regarding combustible fuels and the 32 HR class for gas certifications and backflow prevention, along with things a wilderness handyman would never know, such as barrier-free and ADA requirements.


A guy from New Jersey installed a toilet seat in a NYC restaurant, and a lawsuit happened.

I was hired, and I was paid $7,000 to testify. I am sure the unlicensed installer has the same qualification as you have John.



In New York City, property owners are generally responsible for the installation, maintenance, and repair of sewer and water mains that connect their property to the city's main lines, including those outside the foundation. Licensed master plumbers, specifically those with expertise in subsurface work, are typically hired to perform these tasks. The NYC Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) oversees the process, including permitting and inspections.

The above again proves John, you're a liar or just incompetent when spewing nonsense about codes

The Lacky in NYC that install or repair sewers or water mains normally make a minimum of $25,000 a day 2-man crews


John explain how I was able to convince the law firm to pay $7,000 because of this seat

Come on, you know codes, don't you ???

American Standard MightyTuff Plastic White Round Soft Close Toilet Seat​

I think you can't see why what your saying is dumb. Laying pipe outside of a building is not considered plumbing according to the powers that be. That is why building codes apply on buildings and cival design is pretty devoid of code. There's no license for laying pipe on the street.

Anyone can hire a plumber to lay pipe on the street, but they don't have to it's laborer work. I don't necessarily agree with it but building codes don't apply either. Those designs are done by cival engineers. Plumbers work on buildings. Same with drain cleaning it's not plumbing.

I think you can't see why what your saying is dumb. Laying pipe outside of a building is not considered plumbing according to the powers that be. That is why building codes apply on buildings and cival design is pretty devoid of code. There's no license for laying pipe on the street.

Anyone can hire a plumber to lay pipe on the street, but they don't have to it's laborer work. I don't necessarily agree with it but building codes don't apply either. Those designs are done by cival engineers. Plumbers work on buildings. Same with drain cleaning it's not plumbing.

John, you have no idea what a real master plumber can do under their license or the requirements to obtain one

A license is required for installing or repairing sewer and water mains in NYC. Specifically, only licensed Master Plumbers can obtain the necessary permits for these types of work, according to NYC.



Elaboration:

• Master Plumbers:
  Only Master Plumbers, who are licensed by the NYC Department of Buildings (DOB), can perform plumbing work that involves connecting to the City's water or sewer systems.
  

• Permits:
  A permit is required for any work involving sewer or water main connections, including installation, repair, plugging, or unplugging.
  
  
• Sewer Availability Certification:
  For new connections to the City sewer, a sewer availability certification is also needed, according to NYC DEP.
  
  
• Wet Connections:
  Even plugging a tap or wet connection requires a permit, according to NYC DEP.
  
  
• DOT Permit:
  If the work involves digging or excavation in public areas, a Department of Transportation (DOT) permit may also be required,

John you stated
"Those designs are done by cival engineers. Plumbers work on buildings. Same with drain cleaning it's not plumbing."

Again, you are mistaken.

It is the Master plumber who must size the water main and sewer piping according to fixture units. If an engineer makes a miscalculation and the LMP installs it, the LMP gets fined and possibly has their license revoked.


All the employees working on any type of "plumbing" must be employees directly working under the auspices of the LMP, including those who dig the trenches

 

[Sylvan]

John, I would love the opportunity to go against you in a court of law. Not only will you lose, you could lose the Mickey Mouse license you may have.
These are the lies you have spewed

"Dude ask a lawyer you seem to know some. The building code DOES NOT COVER cival engineering construction. That's
why lackey laborers can lay pipe down the side of a road with no license. Ask one of them, they'll tell you all kinds of things about laying pipe that's bullshit. Finding random articles on the internet don't make them binding by law. You see where it says check with your local inspector, that's them saying they are fine to use as long as the inspector doesn't use a more stringent standard.

I would love to testify opposing you. I think a jury would see most of your arguments don't even apply to the situation and are non coherent. Flooding some shit you googled don't make it real."

John, have someone read this to you and explain in simpleton terms what "no supervision" means with the design or installations.

In New York City, a Master Plumber license allows individuals to work without direct supervision. They are responsible for overseeing plumbing projects, including installations, renovations, and repairs, and can supervise apprentice plumbers. To obtain this license, individuals must pass both a written and practical exam, according to NYC.gov.



Supervision and Work with a Master Plumber License:

• No direct supervision required:
  Master Plumbers are licensed to perform plumbing work independently and without the need for a supervisor.
  

• Responsibility for projects:
  They are responsible for the planning, execution, and completion of plumbing projects, including installations, renovations, and repairs.
  
• Supervisory role:
  Master Plumbers can supervise apprentice plumbers, providing guidance and instruction during work.
  
• Advanced projects:
  Master Plumbers are qualified to handle more complex and in-depth plumbing projects.
  
• License application:
  To apply for the license, individuals must complete the application (LIC41), check the box indicating they are a Master Plumber candidate, and submit the application with the required fee, according to NYC.gov.
  
  Exam requirements:
  The Master Plumber license requires passing both a written and a practical exam.
  
  By the way, I work for 39-law firms and have NEVER LOST A CASE. My newest account is a law firm from Ohio.
  
  I will be testifying against a plumber who, like you, has no clue about codes and the LMP'S responsibility.
• 
  
  In the realm of plumbing, the responsibility for ensuring systems are compliant and safe ultimately rests with the Licensed Master Plumber (LMP). While plumbing engineers design systems, it's the LMP who oversees the installation and ensures it meets local codes and regulations.
  
  
  
  Elaboration:
  
  • Master Plumbers (LMP):
    They are highly trained specialists with years of experience, responsible for designing and installing complex plumbing systems. They ensure compliance with plumbing codes and regulations.
    
  • Plumbing Engineers:
    They focus on broader aspects of designing and planning various systems, including plumbing, but also extend to other fields like mechanical, electrical, or civil engineering. They are responsible for ensuring the system's functionality, safety, and efficiency.
    
    
  • Final Responsibility:
    While both contribute to the plumbing system's success, the LMP ultimately has the responsibility for ensuring the installation meets local codes and is safe. They are the ones who sign off on projects and are legally obligated to hold the public's health, safety, and welfare above all else.
    
    
  • Examples:
    In some jurisdictions, like NYC, only a Licensed Master Plumber can sign off on certain inspections, like those for gas piping systems without having an inspector come to the site.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[John Gayewski]

John, I would love the opportunity to go against you in a court of law. Not only will you lose, you could lose the Mickey Mouse license you may have.
These are the lies you have spewed

"Dude ask a lawyer you seem to know some. The building code DOES NOT COVER cival engineering construction. That's
why lackey laborers can lay pipe down the side of a road with no license. Ask one of them, they'll tell you all kinds of things about laying pipe that's bullshit. Finding random articles on the internet don't make them binding by law. You see where it says check with your local inspector, that's them saying they are fine to use as long as the inspector doesn't use a more stringent standard.

I would love to testify opposing you. I think a jury would see most of your arguments don't even apply to the situation and are non coherent. Flooding some shit you googled don't make it real."

John, have someone read this to you and explain in simpleton terms what "no supervision" means with the design or installations.

In New York City, a Master Plumber license allows individuals to work without direct supervision. They are responsible for overseeing plumbing projects, including installations, renovations, and repairs, and can supervise apprentice plumbers. To obtain this license, individuals must pass both a written and practical exam, according to NYC.gov.



Supervision and Work with a Master Plumber License:

• No direct supervision required:
  Master Plumbers are licensed to perform plumbing work independently and without the need for a supervisor.
• 
  
• Responsibility for projects:
  They are responsible for the planning, execution, and completion of plumbing projects, including installations, renovations, and repairs.
• 
  
• Supervisory role:
  Master Plumbers can supervise apprentice plumbers, providing guidance and instruction during work.
• 
  
• Advanced projects:
  Master Plumbers are qualified to handle more complex and in-depth plumbing projects.
• 
  
• License application:
  To apply for the license, individuals must complete the application (LIC41), check the box indicating they are a Master Plumber candidate, and submit the application with the required fee, according to NYC.gov.
  
  Exam requirements:
  The Master Plumber license requires passing both a written and a practical exam.
  
  By the way, I work for 39-law firms and have NEVER LOST A CASE. My newest account is a law firm from Ohio.
  
  I will be testifying against a plumber who, like you, has no clue about codes and the LMP'S responsibility.
• 
  
  In the realm of plumbing, the responsibility for ensuring systems are compliant and safe ultimately rests with the Licensed Master Plumber (LMP). While plumbing engineers design systems, it's the LMP who oversees the installation and ensures it meets local codes and regulations.
  
  
  
  Elaboration:
  
  • Master Plumbers (LMP):
    They are highly trained specialists with years of experience, responsible for designing and installing complex plumbing systems. They ensure compliance with plumbing codes and regulations.
  • 
    
  • Plumbing Engineers:
    They focus on broader aspects of designing and planning various systems, including plumbing, but also extend to other fields like mechanical, electrical, or civil engineering. They are responsible for ensuring the system's functionality, safety, and efficiency.
    
    
  • 
    
  • Final Responsibility:
    While both contribute to the plumbing system's success, the LMP ultimately has the responsibility for ensuring the installation meets local codes and is safe. They are the ones who sign off on projects and are legally obligated to hold the public's health, safety, and welfare above all else.
    
    
  • 
    
  • Examples:
    In some jurisdictions, like NYC, only a Licensed Master Plumber can sign off on certain inspections, like those for gas piping systems without having an inspector come to the site.
  
  
  
  
  

You keep missing the point and your googled responses are proving me right. The city piping is what we're talking about. Not the service to the build. The city lines start at around 5ft from the building going outward to the larger main lines where manholes are sealed with concrete and fernco's are used regularly.

Posting rules from the private side of the service on into the building isn't relevant. If we were in a court of law you would've been stopped a long time ago. You keep repeating building side rules. City side rules is what we're talking here.

This is my last response here. Readers can make up their own mind and I'll take $7,000 from you for my efforts.