Can I install a washer in my basement without a sink pump

[bachert77]

I would like to install a washer and dryer in my basement and if possible, avoid using a sink ejection pump system. The house is a quad split, and the plumbing comes halfway down the basement wall as can be seen in the photo. If I was to either build a platform up to 18" high, or use a pedestal to raise it 14" - would that provide a functional height for proper draining from a front load washer. I understand the code is a little aged in this area and was written prior to the abundance of front load washers. More than anything, I am looking to know if there would be any draining concerns or other issues I am overlooking.

And if I was to tie into that busy stack, would you recommend tying into the 2" pipe coming from the wye, or would it be preferred to tear it apart and put in a new 4" x 2" double Wye and come in on the right hand side. Any professional wisdom would be appreciated. If the picture is difficult to see, the height center of the 2" inlet on the Wye is about 63".

Thanks,
Brian

 

[Reach4]

would like to install a washer and dryer in my basement and if possible, avoid using a sink ejection pump system. The house is a quad split, and the plumbing comes halfway down the basement wall as can be seen in the photo. If I was to either build a platform up to 18" high, or use a pedestal to raise it 14" - would that provide a functional height for proper draining from a front load washer. I understand the code is a little aged in this area and was written prior to the abundance of front load washers. More than anything, I am looking to know if there would be any draining concerns or other issues I am overlooking.

IPC would allow a higher trapped standpipe for the laundry, and most washing machines are rated to pump up to 96 inches above the floor. The standpipe could be vented with an AAV or real vent.

I don't know what that yellowed pipe coming through a wall horizontally is. Has that line been vented before coming through the wall, or is that a really long trap arm? Is that white standpipe hooked in, or just there as a proposed location?

Once you use a stack as a drain, it cannot be used as a vent. In IPC, if you join a washing machine standpipe with other drainage, it has to continue as 3 inch or bigger. So you will need to tie into the 3 inch I think.

 

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[bachert77]

IPC would allow a higher trapped standpipe for the laundry, and most washing machines are rated to pump up to 96 inches above the floor. The standpipe could be vented with an AAV or real vent.

I don't know what that yellowed pipe coming through a wall horizontally is. Has that line been vented before coming through the wall, or is that a really long trap arm? Is that white standpipe hooked in, or just there as a proposed location?

Once you use a stack as a drain, it cannot be used as a vent. In IPC, if you join a washing machine standpipe with other drainage, it has to continue as 3 inch or bigger. So you will need to tie into the 3 inch I think.

I am almost certain (I will have to double check) that the 4" eventually passes thru the roof and is being used as a vented stack. On the opposite side of that wall is a full bath. So the 4" pipe picks up the toilet about 24" after the pipe disappears into the concrete black/floor. I just bought the house, but have seen the septic field drawings, so I have a pretty good idea where the 4" pipe directional goes as it disappears below the block. The 2" horizontal PVC that is entering the stack from the left hand side is from the sink basin in the bathroom (if it looks like the pipe doesn't have the correct slope - that would be correct. I will repair it at the same time). The 2" pipe coming off the diagonal wye, goes up to the joists and eventually picks up the kitchen sink/DW and current laundry set-up. Finally, the 2" white p-trap with open top is collecting condensate from the furnace installed on the other side of the bathroom.

Do I really need to try and run a new vent stack? Please say no...

At this point, it sounds like we are suggesting if I was to remove the 4"x2" single Y" and replace it with a 4"x2" double wye that would allow a discharge at a reasonable height for a washer drain. Assuming I put a P-trap as low as possible on that line, do I still want to extend the standpipe a minimum of 18" above the trap?

 

[Reach4]

I am almost certain (I will have to double check) that the 4" eventually passes thru the roof and is being used as a vented stack. On the opposite side of that wall is a full bath.

I would be surprised if that 4 inch was not carrying waste from a higher floor, and is not supposed to be used as a vent for stuff in the basement. So to do it as you should, add an AAV to your new standpipe 2-inch trap arm. If you can make/find a dry vent to use instead, great.

If you were under UPC, there would be limits as to how high your new standpipe could be from the floor.

Some places don't require washing machine drainage to go to the septic tank. Some allow you to use a "dry well", for example. I don't know if you need a trap if that. Your county may have info on this, because they probably decide this.

 

[bachert77]

I would be surprised if that 4 inch was not carrying waste from a higher floor, and is not supposed to be used as a vent for stuff in the basement. So to do it as you should, add an AAV to your new standpipe 2-inch trap arm. If you can make/find a dry vent to use instead, great.

If you were under UPC, there would be limits as to how high your new standpipe could be from the floor.

Some places don't require washing machine drainage to go to the septic tank. Some allow you to use a "dry well", for example. I don't know if you need a trap if that. Your county may have info on this, because they probably decide this.

There is no bath vertically above that 4" stack, and I know it runs up thru the wall directly above that floor as I just tried to feather the drywall mud as the wall was bulging a little. There are three bathrooms in the house, but all are on the opposite side of the house and I have already opened up the ceiling below the baths, so I know where they all drain which is eventually into the 4" pipe running under the concrete enroute to the septic field. Sounds like a new 4"x2" double wye, an AAV, trap and standpipe will be the winning combination.

While I have done a fair bit of plumbing in my different properties, I am certainly not a journeymen which is why I am thankful for sites like these where a question can be asked for someone looking to do things by code. Could you explain the problem with a 4" vertical wet vent not being to code after it is used as a drain? What is the negative potential issue?

Thanks again for all the help, much appreciated.

 

[Reach4]

While I have done a fair bit of plumbing in my different properties, I am certainly not a journeymen which is why I am thankful for sites like these where a question can be asked for someone looking to do things by code. Could you explain the problem with a 4" vertical wet vent not being to code after it is used as a drain? What is the negative potential issue?

I am not up on vertical wet venting, but in most codes, including IPC, you cannot extend a vertical wet vent between floors.

So two santees stacked up on the same floor might be fine, but if they are on different floors, I think that changes.

An exception, seldom discussed I think, is waste stack venting. At least sometimes that needs a "relief vent" but in https://wabo.memberclicks.net/assets/pdfs/Plumbing_Venting_Brochure_2018.pdf page 11 bottom, they show stack venting that does not show a relief vent. So that maybe should get more discussion. Seems to be a good thing for you.

 

[bachert77]

Thanks for the plumbing venting brochure PDF, it has been printed and you are definitely correct that page 11 (Waste Stack Vent) does look similar to how the initial plumbing was installed. Actually a really valuable document overall, so thank you for the share.

 

[Reach4]

and you are definitely correct that page 11 (Waste Stack Vent) does look similar to how the initial plumbing was installed.

I am confident that the drain coming down in the smaller pipe has been through a trap that has been vented already. So that would not yet be stack venting.

 

[bachert77]

I am confident that the drain coming down in the smaller pipe has been through a trap that has been vented already. So that would not yet be stack venting.

It is at a cottage in Northern Michigan so I can't even guess at this point. I believe the bathroom was put in with the initial construction based on the drain field permit I looked at, but I also don't remember seeing an AAV or a different vent pipe. I am quite certain there was a trap under the sink. My son tends to use the bathroom more than anyone and he often complains it has a bit of a nasty odor. I thought he was being dramatic, but maybe there is actually a venting issue as well. We just bought it recently, and are still in the phase of learning all the problems that become inherited with a purchased home!

 

[DIYorBust]

Many full sized washing machines are able to pump 8 feet high into an overhead standpipe. I have this setup and it works just fine. You'll have to vent the trap somehow, so that might be the determining feature of weather this is feasible. I thought AAVs were only for sinks and lavs, but maybe it would work here.