Can I attach fernco directly to flange?

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by zimmee66, Feb 4, 2006.

  1. zimmee66

    zimmee66 New Member

    Feb 28, 2005
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Hi All!

    I'm replacing a lead soil riser/cast iron flange setup and ran into something I didn't expect ;-(

    For now, Im using the outhouse, our "second bath" (no kidding!)...this is turning into one of those nightmare projects!

    What I planned to do was use a banded coupling (not technically a fernco, I understand) and attach that to the old brass ferule after cutting away the lead, and to PVC with a new flange on the end of the new PVC riser.

    The problem turns out to be that the cast iron closet bend (with brass ferrule soldered in the bell) leaves just 5 inches or so clearance between the end of the bell (not including the ferrule) and the bottom of the flange. With flooring included more like 4 inches. The rubber coupler alone is almost 4 inches.

    In short--no room for any PVC soil riser, or at least no more than an inch or two of PVC.

    Is there a special flange I can buy that has a built-in riser? Or is it ok to use such a short length of PVC as a riser?

    I hope Ive explained this OK...heres a picture to help. (that's a 2x8 joist for ref).

    It sure is cold in the outhouse!

    Attached Files:

  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Aug 31, 2004
    Cave Creek, Arizona

    What kind of "Fernco" are you using that has a 4" metal band? Most are only 2"-3" long. They make spigot flanges that you could use, but if it were I, I would remove the brass ferrule and install a new cast iron riser and cast iron flange and do the job right.
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  4. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Apr 18, 2005
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Make life easy for yourself and cut that cast iron where it turns horizontal, leave enough to use a 4"X4" Mission no-hub coupling. Then use a 4"X3" reducing coupling or fitting, come off with either a 3" 90 or street 90 and cut your length of 3" to get to the new 4"X3" closet flange. Fighting that short distance between the floor and the top of hub limits the tools needed to gain access to start over. If you cannot get to the horizontal then follow the idea of leaving the brass ferrule intact and taking off from there.

    You can use a 4" clay to 3" PVC fernco coupling to go over that 4" cast hub, you will have to slide the 3" vertical pipe going into the coupling farther than usual to get past the brass ferrule, but I didn't say that.
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2006
  5. zimmee66

    zimmee66 New Member

    Feb 28, 2005
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Thanks AJ and Rugged...

    Thanks AJ-- Your right its not a banded coupling, its a plumqwik. I'd LOVE to use cast iron but even in the nearby towns no plumbers does it anymore, and im sure it's beyond my skill level.

    I hear ya on cutting horizontal but access is really awful, w/multiple crisscrossing gas, elec, and cold/hot supply pipes. This is an century old farm house--everything is kludged in).

    In fact, it's the job nobody wants! I'm 1-1/2 hrs from a minor city and (inexperienced) plumber, and thats the same place the bldg supply is (a small one, too). We have a couple local guys but they aren't really plumbers--just handymen. Its country, and a skilled plumber wouldnt have enough work, so Im on my own I guess.

    The tip about the cheater clay-PVC fitting is great, I'll make that my backup plan depending on how I do with the brass ferrule.

    Im cut down to the ferrule now. Id like to leave the lead on--I know sometimes its torched off but the joist is notched for the pipe already and it would be pretty risky along with the challenge just physically getting in there. The PlumbQwik fits the ferrule reasonably well (even with lead on it).

    I just cant figure out how to get from the flange plastic to the plumbqwik.
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2006
  6. Cass

    Cass Plumber

    Nov 12, 2005
    From up above get a sawsall with the longest blade you can find and cut through the lead to the inside of the CI hub in a few places. Then take a long screwdriver and pry the lead out. Once the lead is gone clean the inside of the hub well with a wire brush. The big box stores sell a fernco type / style donut that will go between the pipe and the hub. This takes between 30 min. and 1.5 hrs. to do depending on what you run into.
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