Best Splice Kit

[TVL]

I just replaced the tank and pressure switch on my system. After replacing the tank and pressure switch, I decided to make some resistance checks to determine the "health" of the system. Everything appeared completely normal and within range except for the following:

Reading from the GROUND lead to each of the 3 motor leads gave a resistance value and I was expecting infinity or at least ohm values in the mega ohms -

Ground lead from the pump to Red motor lead:
Initial Reading ............... 1 minute later .............. 2 minutes later .............. 3 minutes later
~ 17K ohms .......................31.6k ohms ....................33.8k ohms .................... 34.3k ohms

Ground lead from the pump to the Yellow & Black motor leads produced about the exact same values as above. I'm speculating the connections at the pump are not water tight and this is why I'm getting the resistance values when reading each motor lead to the pump ground lead. When the pump was installed, I did utilize a "kit" for connecting the leads that also provided heat shrink with sealant that should have ensured things were water-tight. If my speculation is correct, this must NOT have occurred.

I am confident the feed cable insulation to the pump is in very good shape and is not worn or frayed. I truly believe I have water getting into the splices and we all know water or the impurities in water can conduct electricity ............... poor as it may be. And again, maybe most submersible pumps in most wells have the same issue I have discovered and it is not considered a big deal. My system runs perfectly and pulls the specified amount of current: 9.3 amps (1 HP pump motor) .............. and the ohm values between the 3 motor leads are well within the specified limits!

So, leave it alone? Or, rework the splices? If I rework the splices, I would like to purchase a good splice kit that is almost foolproof in making things water tight. What can you recommend?????????

 

[Reach4]

When you say ground lead, do you mean the ground lead from the pump? Are the wires isolated from the control box during your readings?

The Franklin AIM manual draws the line at 500 kOhm.

For 5 milliamps current (where a GFI trips) at 240 volts, the resistance would be 48 kOhm.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[TVL]

When you say ground lead, do you mean the ground lead from the pump? Are the wires isolated from the control box during your readings?

The Franklin AIM manual draws the line at 500 kOhm.

For 5 milliamps current (where a GFI trips) at 240 volts, the resistance would be 48 kOhm.

1- Yes, that is reading between the ground lead on the pump to each motor lead.

2- I can only wonder how many submersible pumps are out there in the world with splices that are not completely water tight. This one situation alone would yield resistance readings similar to what I am experiencing. Doesn't make it right, but it is most likely a common issue. I did contact the maker of the pump (F&W) and they implied this condition was not bad for the motor. I'm still wanting to correct things unless someone can convince me this is a common issue with water splices.

Thanks for you input!

 

[Valveman]

It is possible but a short down hole is rarely the splice. I have seen motors with a short like that run for years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the short is not in the splice you will be getting a new motor. Might as well see how much more you can get out of the old one and just run it until it quits.

 

[TVL]

It is possible but a short down hole is rarely the splice. I have seen motors with a short like that run for years. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. If the short is not in the splice you will be getting a new motor. Might as well see how much more you can get out of the old one and just run it until it quits.

1- The pump is only 3 years old - F&W all stainless 1 HP - Model: 4F10S10301 (I guess I need to check the warranty for this pump ........ just in case)

2- The reason I don't think it is the pump motor is because if you noted in my first message, the resistance values begin at approximately 17,000 ohms and immediately start increasing. After 1 minute the resistance values have reached about 32,000 ohms and continue to increase, BUT much more slowly! I placed my leads in a glass of well water and found that to be a somewhat similar case. In other words, the values wanted to increase for a short while BEFORE somewhat leveling out.

3- I would like to believe that if this were a motor issue, the resistance values would be much more stable from the very beginning and stay put. When I read the resistance values between the 3 main motor leads that is what I saw - stable and the values did not move. And the values were all well within tolerance!!!

4- And can this be considered a short? Everything runs fine and I am experiencing no unusual conditions ................ such as a tripped breaker?? This is just an observation on my part, but I do feel it isn't completely "normal". Thus the reason for my questioning!

 

[TVL]

Anyway, back to my original question:

Can anyone recommend a "tried and true" water well splice kit? One that has always proven to yield a water-tight splice if installed correctly.

Thanks again!

 

[Craigpump]

Campbell makes a great splice kit with butt connectors and shrink tubing.

 

[Boycedrilling]

I always check the resistance between the motor leads and the ground wire on both new installations and trouble shooting existing pumps. However I use a meggohmeter, not a multimeter. You will see the difference between just the motor and after the pump is down the well and you are also reading the insulation resistance of the submersible wire. As a pump ages the resistance will drop. The Franklin AIM manual has a section showing the acceptable meggohmeter readings for new and used motors. You also know instantly if you have an electrical problem down the hole as opposed to a problem Above ground.

I just received a Chinese built merger that I bought on amazon. I'll be interested to see how it's readings compare to my other meggers.

 

[Boycedrilling]

I buy the premade splice kits from my pump distributor, until I get to big wire like 4/0. Then I use bulk shrink tubing and butt connectors from my electrical distributor.

Years ago there were some splice kits that the tubing would split if you weren't careful. But I haven't seen that problem in probably 20 years. I use an electric heat gun, not a propane torch. Heat from the middle out. Try not to trap any air bubbles I. The heat shrink adhesive. Make sure that there are no wire sticking out that didn't go into the butt connectors. They can poke thru the heat shrink tubing

I have pulled 4 pumps this year that the installer (not me) cut into the sub wire while cutting off the sub wire's double jacket. They ran 3 to 6 months before failing.

 

[TVL]

I always check the resistance between the motor leads and the ground wire on both new installations and trouble shooting existing pumps. However I use a meggohmeter, not a multimeter. You will see the difference between just the motor and after the pump is down the well and you are also reading the insulation resistance of the submersible wire. As a pump ages the resistance will drop. The Franklin AIM manual has a section showing the acceptable meggohmeter readings for new and used motors. You also know instantly if you have an electrical problem down the hole as opposed to a problem Above ground.

I just received a Chinese built merger that I bought online. I'll be interested to see how it's readings compare to my other meggers.

Thanks Boycedrilling!!!! Based on the information I supplied, do you think the resistance values I am seeing are due to "wet" splices and not the pump motor itself?

And second, I can get hold of a megger. Would that help me better understand if this is a splice issue or something worse?????

 

[Reach4]

Regarding a megger, the megger is better for finding a problem with maybe intermittent shorts. The 500 or 1000 volts can break down a very thin gaps or insulation like a light oxide coating. It is pretty sure that a megger would not show a higher resistance. It is good at catching the marginal situation.

One thing I am curious about is why the resistance rises. What happens if you let the resistance rise and then reverse the two legs? If the answer is that the resistance suddenly drops down even lower than the 17 kOhms, that will be very interesting.

 

[Boycedrilling]

It's been my experience that if a shrink tubing splice is going to fail, it will do it in a matter or weeks or maximum of a few months. The submersible wire also breaks down and water can migrate thru it.

A few years ago my 60 hp test pump failed while in the hole. I figured bad splices. I don't normally cut the wire off of it when I pull and set it. Anyway I pulled it back out and cut the splices out. When I cut the splices, water wicked out the motor leads. I bought a new motor lead kit, respiced the wires, and its run fine since.

Your resistance readings do sound low. Borrow that meager and check the resistance with it. You have a greater chance of it being the wire than the splice kit after three years. If it was me, would I pull it? No, not until it failed.

When I do check resistance, first I check it with the wires disconnected at the control box. If it tests bad, I disconnect the wires at the well head and check it again. If it still test bad, the pump comes out of the hole. Once I've pulled the pump, I cut the sub wire off at the splices and check the motor itself. That's how I found the cut wire on one of the pumps I pulled earlier this year. It megged bad at the top of the well, but when I got it pulled and cut the spices off, the motor tested good. On closer inspection I saw where the black wire had been sliced into when cutting off the outer jacket. You could see the green corrosion in the cut.

 

[Boycedrilling]

I've bought 4 meggers over the years. There are hand crank and battery operated meggers. About 20 years ago I learned to use one. The company I worked for had a Biddle megger. I bought my own used one on ebay for about $300. Used Biddles still sell for about that. A new Biddle is over $1,200. Then I found some new military surplus meggers for $75 each. I bought 10 of them and sold the extra nine for $150 each in a couple of days. This is the one I still On a daily basis.

About 15 years ago I worked for a company that had a battery operated megger with a digital readout. All you had to do was push a button, no cranking involved.

I decided to buy another one this spring for my pump guys. I keep my old military surplus one in my pickup. I decided to try a battery operated one online. It was a POS. Good thing it was only $16! Just ordered a hand crank one for $35. Got it Saturday. Haven't tried it yet. Will compare the readings between the Chinese el cheaply with my tried and true military surplus one.

 

[Valveman]

I never use heat shrinks. I like the 130C tape. When wrapped correctly it makes a solid rubber coat that cannot be unwrapped. I can make a splice with 130C before you can find the torch or heat gun. If I find heat shrinks, I wrap 130C over the top of them. It works on big wire or small wire, 1/3HP or 1000HP, and has always been pretty fool proof for me. I always wrap all the way to where the double jacket was cut off, just in case the wire has a slice from the stripping process.

 

[TVL]

If it was me, would I pull it? No, not until it failed.
.

Thanks again everyone for the replies!!!!

Boycedrilling - in regards to your statement above: If this issue is with the wire OR the splices, shouldn't I pull the pump and correct it? Are you indicating an issue such as this will not harm the pump motor? If that is truly the case, then I probably will just forget about it!

As stated earlier, this is a 1 HP all stainless F&W pump that is only 3 years old last month. And it wasn't cheap! I surely don't want to neglect something that may have saved the pump motor.

Thanks to all again!

 

[TVL]

One thing I am curious about is why the resistance rises. What happens if you let the resistance rise and then reverse the two legs? If the answer is that the resistance suddenly drops down even lower than the 17 kOhms, that will be very interesting.

Reach,

I retested with two different ohm meters (Fluke 87 III and a Fluke 87 V) and got the same results as my initial post.. I also switched leads during the testing process and the results were the same. I also tested the leads with a Biddle Megger and it yielded basically the exact results. Of course, the Megger doesn't have enough resolution to tell if the resistance is increasing or not. But, the Megger did indicate there was very little resistance and I interpreted the scale to be about 30K ohms.

Now for additional info:

1- I have a third meter which is an analog meter (Simpson 260). I tested the leads at the well head and it yielded basically the same results as the digital meters and the Biddle Megger. It also showed the resistance increasing for a short while before leveling out ???????

2- I then took two containers and filled one with well water and the other with distilled water. Using the Simpson analog meter and simply dropping the leads down into the container, the well water had a resistance of ~ 23,000 ohms and the distilled water had a resistance of ~ 250,000 ohms.

Based on this info:

A- I guess this could be a motor issue ................. but, I'm still betting it isn't OR at least hoping so!

B- This could be defective or "leaking splices". I still feel strongly this is the real issue. I would like to think if the cable feeding the pump had a nick or frayed spot, I would get low resistance on just one set of wires ...... not between all four! And, the fact I'm getting about the same resistance value as I did with the glass of water test I mentioned above, seems to point to something other than the motor.

C- Possibly, the cable feeding the pump has become somewhat saturated with well water. I wouldn't have thought this would be possible, but I guess the well experts out there can confirm or deny this thought. I have attached a photo of the flat submersible cable which feeds the pump. Maybe there is someone out there who knows this cable to be inferior for well use???

D- I can't think of anything else that could or would give low resistance values in this case.

And last, I did receive a reply from Franklin Motor and there response is as follows:

Attached are the test procedures and values we require as minimums for insulation. Your motor lead to motor lead readings with wire are within range. However, your insulation resistance to ground is too low. This means you have electricity leaking into the water creating a shock hazard in addition to poor motor performance. This insulation failure could be anywhere along the wire. It could be at the splice, but doesn’t have to be. This insulation damage must we corrected before someone gets hurt. I would suggest you contact a local Franklin Key Dealer as needed. Key Dealers can be found by adding your Zip or Postal Code to the following link.

 

[PumpMd]

I like to see lots of adhesive goo coming out of my heat shrink splice kits like they use too and that is the problem with alot brands out on the market today. The best brand I found so far is Boshart Industries out of Canada, we use the clear HSK ones for smaller wire and the HS for bigger wire.

http://randolphsupplyincorporated.com/Cat/BST/Heat Shrink Kits and Accessories.pdf

 

[TVL]

Although my pump seems to be performing perfectly and after sleeping on things, I do feel it's probably best I try to remedy the low resistance issue between the pump ground and the motor leads.

Therefore, I am going to pull the pump which is 140 feet down. As bad as I hate to, if I'm going to pull the pump, I should probably go ahead and replace the pump wire. I would hate to get it up & out of the well only to discover the wire is the real issue and I don't have any on hand!! That would be a bummer.

1- The attached photo shows the cable that is currently in use and has been down for approximately 10 years. Can anyone tell me if this particular type cable has been found to be inferior in any way whatsoever??

2- I don't think I want to purchase cable this time at one of the nearby big box stores - as I did 10 years back. What is considered a very good submersible pump cable and can be purchased online at a reasonable cost? I do prefer a stranded conductor and I certainly feel double jacketed would be a better choice in the long run.

Thanks!

 

[Valveman]

If you do have a leak at the splice, stranded wire will let water wick up into the wire a long ways. You can hang it up and let it drain out, but it takes some time. It is not rated for water wells, but my favorite is the round jacketed THHN like for underground installations.

 

[TVL]

OK, I pulled the pump today and the splice was saturated with water. Everything else checked perfectly! After removing the old splice and making new ones with a heavy wall heat shrink tubing, I returned the pump to the well. Now, the readings to ground are infinity with a megger. Hopefully, this problem has been resolved once and for all!