Autotrol 255/460i Not Regenerating

[FullmoonGuru]

I have this valve on a softener. It's about 8 yrs. old now. When I first bought the system I was sold the softener and iron filter. I than added a chem. feeder to handle iron bacteria and manganese. Each month I would add chlorine and sodium carbinate to the chem feeder. Well I had to clean the junk out of the valves ever year or so when they would get clogged up. The insides of the pipes would get clogged too. Turned out (I think) to be the sodium carbinate.

So... I decided to reset several months ago. Got new reson for the softner, disconnected the chem feeder, and bypassed the iron filter (iron is 2 ppm so I don't think it was ever needed). When I did all this I completely disassembled the 255 valve again and flippped the valves. The water seems good except for sulpher smell sometimes. But now the softener has stopped regenerating. I am manually regenerating once a week or so and it seems to work fine.

My question is if I should just ditch this thing and get a fleck valve, or diagnose this one and fix it? I know Autotrol are not the best design.

If I buy a Fleck, which one? We have a small house with 3 people living in it.

And while I'm posting I'll ask what to do about the smell (mangenese)?

 

[ditttohead]

The Autotrol valves are exceptional valves. Most of us on this site would prefer the Fleck or Clack valves, but the Autotrols are considered a top ter quality brand by most. The flapper designs can handle extremely bad water, and as you noticed, the flappers are able to be flipped for temporary repairs. Be aware that if you change the valve, the inlet/outlet are reversed, and the manifold size and height need to be confirmed as well.

Since you are on a well, when was the last time you had a thorough water test done? It is hard to make a recommendation without knowing what is in your water.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I presume you saw http://www.softenerparts.com/Autotrol_Osmonics_Model_255_s/35.htm My old Autotrol (different model) was also needing manual backwashing. I bought a whole valve assembly used, expecting to only move the timer. However the assembly I got was in such good shape, I ended up subbing it out after moving the metering orifices over.

I expect the sulfur smell is sulfur. I got a backwashing Centaur Carbon filter that did wonders for my sulfur and iron.

 

[Gary Slusser]

IF.... the chem feeder was set up correctly, or working correctly, there should be no odor or iron or H2S or manganese, etc. in the treated water. Removing the filter, which should have been a carbon filter meant to remove the residue caused by chlorination and the chlorine (if used). Now without it the softener is probably loading up with dirt (rust etc.), which is causing the softener problems of one kind or another.

 

[FullmoonGuru]

Dittohead, it's been since we set the system up so a re-test is a good point. What is the recommended interval between retests for a well? Is there a preferred place to have it tested or do I find a local lab? (last time a freind that works at a testing lab did it for me)

Glad to hear that the Autotrol is worth fixing. I guess my question on that is if there is how to diagnose the issue so I don't buy parts I don't need.

Reach, I haven't seen that page. Thanks for the link. I was told the smell was from the mangenese (.05 ppm).

Gary, the water was fine with the chem feeder working, except the sodium carbinate clogging the system. When I started over I decided to run with just the softener because (after being at least minimally educated on this stuff) it sounded like my iron count was not high enough to need the iron filter. The filter was not there to treat the chlorine. It was a 7" terminox to handle the iron, I was told.

I don't think the softener is having problems from getting stuff in it. First, it's only been a couple of months. Also, it seems that if that were the case teh softener wouldn't regen when I pushed the button. I'm assuming it's a control issue, but I don't know if it's likely to be the sensor, wire, control head...or how to diagnose.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate this help.

 

[ditttohead]

http://www.ntllabs.com/index.html

I get several test results a week from this company, good price, quick and simple.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Glad to hear that the Autotrol is worth fixing. I guess my question on that is if there is how to diagnose the issue so I don't buy parts I don't need.

Reach, I haven't seen that page. Thanks for the link. I was told the smell was from the mangenese (.05 ppm).

Gary, the water was fine with the chem feeder working, except the sodium carbinate clogging the system. When I started over I decided to run with just the softener because (after being at least minimally educated on this stuff) it sounded like my iron count was not high enough to need the iron filter. The filter was not there to treat the chlorine. It was a 7" terminox to handle the iron, I was told.

I don't think the softener is having problems from getting stuff in it. First, it's only been a couple of months. Also, it seems that if that were the case teh softener wouldn't regen when I pushed the button. I'm assuming it's a control issue, but I don't know if it's likely to be the sensor, wire, control head...or how to diagnose.

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate this help.

The odor is much more likely caused by the IRB the solution feeder was killing while it oxidized all odors but chlorine.

I say you should find the cause of the control valve not doing an automatic regeneration at the scheduled time you set it to. It may be a broken tooth on a gear or something with the 460i meter, circuit board or a stopped turbine not counting down the gallons. I also suggest putting in new flapper valves and making sure their seats are clean.

 

[FullmoonGuru]

Yes I think I should find the problem too! I guess I was just wondering if there is a common failure that causes this problem with the Autotrol valves. I can start by looking at the wheel, but if anyone know a diagnostic procedure for figuring out which component has failed, that would be very helpful. If I set the calendar override and it automatically regenerated would that tell me that the control head is actually good?

So you think the iron bacteria is causing the smell? I'm not getting any staining. I think I remember a tech telling me that he thought it was the mangense, but then they are the ones that told me to put the sodium chloride in the chem feeder. And my ph was 7.4, so I didn't even need it right? Is there a way to tell what the small is coming from so I know exactly what to do about it? If I get the water tested post-softener I guess that would tell me what's going on?

 

[Reach4]

And my ph was 7.4, so I didn't even need it right? Is there a way to tell what the small is coming from so I know exactly what to do about it? If I get the water tested post-softener I guess that would tell me what's going on?

The water test may not show sulfur, even if present. It might not be tested for. It is probably going to show iron and manganese. Figuring out what test to order can be challenging I think.

 

[Gary Slusser]

Since you can do a manual regeneration, and it won't regenerate automatically, there is something wrong with the meter, meter cable or timer/circuit board. Maybe a loose or dirty/corroded meter cable connection on either/both ends of it. Or dirt has stopped the turbine from spinning.