An unknown parts in toilet tank and a fill valve with special refill tube connection

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Jason2222

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The fill valve has a small leak in the tank of a low-tank toilet. However, as shown in the picture, the refill tube does not go directly to overflow. It connects to another part that I never saw before. Besides, the refill tube connection is bigger than regular one.
1. What is the name of the "weird part" that works on behalf of the refill tube?
2. Is that fill valve a special model, or it has a special convertor/plug that can work with the "weird part"?

Thank you in advance.
Jason

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wjcandee

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It's a diverter. It adjusts the flow to the refill hose as the tank fills. That's why it has a float on it. Probably also prevents siphoning of the tank through the fill valve. One purpose is also that in a lot of lowboys, part of the water from the tank doesn't rush to the rim holes to participate in the flush like it does in a traditional design, because the water exit from the bottom of tank is (duh) below the level of the rim holes. So the flow of water through the "refill" hose does that job. So the toilet requires a higher volume of water through the refill hose to make all the holes function the way the engineers designed them to at the time of the flush.

When you say the fill valve has a "leak", what do you mean? Some of these anti-siphon fill valves actually drip when they're filling, and that's on purpose.

What symptom are you trying to cure, exactly? If water leaks out of the fill valve, it goes into the tank, so normally it's not a problem. Is it leaking on the floor or something? I'm just not sure why you think you need to replace it.

That's a WDI brand fill valve that probably isn't original to the toilet, but could be specially-designed to work with that diverter setup, which does look original.

Some of these old lowboys used a fair amount of water. I have a 1980s-era AS one in my apt in the city. Because they needed a lot of water, they had a larger-diameter hardline running between the wall valve and the toilet, and a water control (fill valve) that had a higher throughput. Everything was bigger so it would refill faster.

The building could never get the toilet to flush right. (My fixing that myself is a separate story.) And then they replaced the hardline with a normal braided hose when they reset the toilet because it needed a new wax ring (the sewer gas small was unreal). With the smaller-diameter braided hose, it took longer to fill anyway, so when the water control broke (again), I didn't call the building plumbers, I just pulled the fill valve (which had a diverter) and replaced it with a Korky 528PRO, which just fit vertically at its shortest setting. Juuusssst fit. I set the refill control on the Korky so that the bowl was full when the water cut off (just using the thinner refill hose that came with the Korky), and made sure I had the refill hose end above the water level so it didn't siphon. Tossed the diverter into the back of the closet in case the landlord ever demanded it back.

Problem solved. (Although whether this approach would work on your model is entirely-unknown.) This particular approach means that you don't get as much water through the rim holes generally, and little-to-no water through some of them, because of the lower force and volume of water through the Korky refill hose. Do you know how much I notice this difference? I don't. At all.

The original setup filled the toilet in about 25 seconds. It now takes about 45, but that started when they took out the hardline because they didn't want to bother lining the toilet up carefully to reuse the hardline. I replaced that fill valve when it broke on a holiday weekend several years ago, and I haven't had to open the tank top since.

If you know the brand and model of the toilet, I can perhaps look up what parts it uses. If I recall, the official parts for mine were like $100+, and my under-$15 Korky 528PRO does the job. WDI is sometimes referred to on here as a "cheap foreign junk" brand, so it may be a less-expensive alternative to the original guts, and that may be why it's in there. (And if it costs $10 and works reliably for ten years, and you can replace it yourself in 10 minutes, I wouldn't tell you not to use it.)

But all this said, if all you're seeing is a little water running off the valve and into the tank when it is refilling the tank, that's normal.
 
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Jason2222

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It's a diverter. It adjusts the flow to the refill hose as the tank fills. That's why it has a float on it. Probably also prevents siphoning of the tank through the fill valve. One purpose is also that in a lot of lowboys, part of the water from the tank doesn't rush to the rim holes to participate in the flush like it does in a traditional design, because the water exit from the bottom of tank is (duh) below the level of the rim holes. So the flow of water through the "refill" hose does that job. So the toilet requires a higher volume of water through the refill hose to make all the holes function the way the engineers designed them to at the time of the flush.

When you say the fill valve has a "leak", what do you mean? Some of these anti-siphon fill valves actually drip when they're filling, and that's on purpose.

What symptom are you trying to cure, exactly? If water leaks out of the fill valve, it goes into the tank, so normally it's not a problem. Is it leaking on the floor or something? I'm just not sure why you think you need to replace it.

That's a WDI brand fill valve that probably isn't original to the toilet, but could be specially-designed to work with that diverter setup, which does look original.

Some of these old lowboys used a fair amount of water. I have a 1980s-era AS one in my apt in the city. Because they needed a lot of water, they had a larger-diameter hardline running between the wall valve and the toilet, and a water control (fill valve) that had a higher throughput. Everything was bigger so it would refill faster.

The building could never get the toilet to flush right. (My fixing that myself is a separate story.) And then they replaced the hardline with a normal braided hose when they reset the toilet because it needed a new wax ring (the sewer gas small was unreal). With the smaller-diameter braided hose, it took longer to fill anyway, so when the water control broke (again), I didn't call the building plumbers, I just pulled the fill valve (which had a diverter) and replaced it with a Korky 528PRO, which just fit vertically at its shortest setting. Juuusssst fit. I set the refill control on the Korky so that the bowl was full when the water cut off (just using the thinner refill hose that came with the Korky), and made sure I had the refill hose end above the water level so it didn't siphon. Tossed the diverter into the back of the closet in case the landlord ever demanded it back.

Problem solved. (Although whether this approach would work on your model is entirely-unknown.) This particular approach means that you don't get as much water through the rim holes generally, and little-to-no water through some of them, because of the lower force and volume of water through the Korky refill hose. Do you know how much I notice this difference? I don't. At all.

The original setup filled the toilet in about 25 seconds. It now takes about 45, but that started when they took out the hardline because they didn't want to bother lining the toilet up carefully to reuse the hardline. I replaced that fill valve when it broke on a holiday weekend several years ago, and I haven't had to open the tank top since.

If you know the brand and model of the toilet, I can perhaps look up what parts it uses. If I recall, the official parts for mine were like $100+, and my under-$15 Korky 528PRO does the job. WDI is sometimes referred to on here as a "cheap foreign junk" brand, so it may be a less-expensive alternative to the original guts, and that may be why it's in there. (And if it costs $10 and works reliably for ten years, and you can replace it yourself in 10 minutes, I wouldn't tell you not to use it.)

But all this said, if all you're seeing is a little water running off the valve and into the tank when it is refilling the tank, that's normal.

I have figured it out that the unknown part is the diverter to rim feed hose. You are 100% correct. Thank you.

I want to replace the WDI fill valve because it is malfunctional. However, it is hard to find out the model that supports the diverter. ALL WDI fill valves I found have small refill tube that goes to overflow. I have found Kohler 84499 kit that is designed for this kind of toilet bowls. Though I need to waste some money on unnecessary parts, the solution is there. Thank you for letting me know that WDI is a "junk brand". So I don't need to stick to the old complicated settings.

Thank you again for sharing the high water consumption and your experience to fix it. I never noticed this aspect before. Excellent!
 

wjcandee

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If that Kohler kit is correct (and I don't know that it is because I still don't know your toilet model number -- don't assume it is just because it has a big refill hose), it has a new flush valve as well, which I haven't heard that you need.

And what it has is just a 1B1X fill valve, which a lot of people make, so you could find something less-expensive. (e.g. Danco 41036B).

Or you could go with a brass one from Cesco Brass that replaces the Kohler fill valve in that kit, for the toilet models listed at the bottom of the description: https://www.cescobrass.com/Model16ak.cfm
See also https://www.cescobrass.com/store/index.cfm?sec=14
They're apparently very-nice and helpful folks if you communicate with them. You would also need a tank ball for that valve if you went with the Cesco solution, and they sell one. (They're inexpensive.)

Again assuming that it fits your toilet.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes.

kohler-84499-1b1x-pic.jpg
 
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