Advantages of offset sillcock?

[Re-engineer]

I've been scratching my head over this one, and haven't been able to find an answer.

What is the advantage of an offset sillcock (top picture) versus the standard inline/angled exit sillcock (bottom picture)? Laugh at my made-up names if you want, I won't get offended... I don't really know what to call them.

Does the offset offer more convenience, or higher flow, or what advtantages...?

I'm assuming the offset-style has some tangible advantage because that's the design I usually see for commercial installations. It certainly appears to mount more securely, which is why I'm considering that style for our house. They are more expensive from what I've seen, but I'm fully willing to spend a little extra if there is an advantage there and if it's higher performing, more reliable, rebuild-able, etc. I'm getting something frost-free because it seems like a good idea, even in fairly temperate North Carolina (it's a replacement, not new construction).

Prier calls the offset-style "Heavy Duty Residential", which doesn't tell me anything about it except that it's more heavy duty than something else.

I'm not necessarily considering the models in the pictures, I just grabbed the pictures to illustrate the difference. Those Prier units do like nice though, to my semi-untrained eye.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Stop scratching; here's the answer. I've found that both the freeze resistance and vacuum breaker features to be a problem, not far down the road.
They look nice, though.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Jadnashua]

The top one might release the water when you shut it off, and allow you to get the freeze protection if you leave the hose on. I know that Woodford has some models that allow that - most won't release and drain unless you remove the hose.

FWIW, you may not have a choice in using a vacuum breaker on a hose bib, and it is certainly safer for both you and anyone in the neighborhood since that would prevent polluting the water supply should you leave the end of the hose in a puddle that might be full of dog dew or pesticides.

 

[FullySprinklered]

The top one might release the water when you shut it off, and allow you to get the freeze protection if you leave the hose on. I know that Woodford has some models that allow that - most won't release and drain unless you remove the hose.

FWIW, you may not have a choice in using a vacuum breaker on a hose bib, and it is certainly safer for both you and anyone in the neighborhood since that would prevent polluting the water supply should you leave the end of the hose in a puddle that might be full of dog dew or pesticides.

Or, you might get hit in the back of the head by Halley's Comet while pruning the roses in your back yard.
Got my snide fix for the day. Listen, all the new water meters have a check valve. All the PRVs have a check valve. So, how's the uglies going to get in your neighbor's iced tea?

 

[Jadnashua]

There are millions of installations that do not yet have check valves...and, if you want to pass an inspection, maybe not now, but when you get ready to sell your home, you must have one...while a few states do not require car insurance...you must have it to legally drive most places...same thing.

Advising people to do something that does not meet codes is irresponsible, however well intentioned.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Maybe I've overfocused on my service area to the neglect of others. But this is where I work.

Had a friend maybe 14 years ago who lived out in the country. He kept a garden hose over in a trough that he used to water his cows. He was on a well. Now that was a major source of concern. Power goes out, he's got a teapot full of tadpoles.

 

[Re-engineer]

Can anyone answer the actual question I asked...?

Don't get hung up in the specifics of the pictures I posted. Both the vacuum breaker and the freeze proof features are available on both style. I'm not really concerned about the nuances of the vacuum breaker or the freeze proof valve seat relocation. That's a separate question, and much easier to find info on.

I want to know what the advantage that the side-by-side layout has versus the more traditional layout..

I appreciate the replies so far, but they're a bit off topic.

 

[Reach4]

I want to know what the advantage that the side-by-side layout has versus the more traditional layout..

It looks to me as if it hugs the wall more. Less likely to get bumped or snagged or to interfere with actions. I suspect it would be more immune to damage to itself in that if it gets bumped from the side, there is less moment arm.

 

[Quarterball]

Top one drains even if you leave the hose on. Similar to Woodford Model 25.
Bottom one drains only if you remove the hose.

 

[Re-engineer]

Top one drains even if you leave the hose on. Similar to Woodford Model 25.
Bottom one drains only if you remove the hose.

Interesting. I don't know why they wouldn't build that into the bottom one too. With the valve seat already relocated (for freeze proof), the bottom one could just as easily be self-draining with the same type of vac breaker I would imagine.

Did the top one come first with the freeze-proof and vac breaker stuff, more targeted for commercial use, and then some of those things eventually got built into the bottom one for lighter duty residential use? This is all making me very curious.

 

[FullySprinklered]

Too many engineers for me. I'm outta here.

 

[Jadnashua]

A common complaint about frost-free silcocks is that they fail when it freezes because people did not remove the hose (maybe not a problem in Georgia!), so, coming up with a design that prevents the damage came later to protect those from making that sometimes costly mistake.

 

[FullySprinklered]

The few that I've worked on were difficult to repair. Some were split wide open, some had hard to fit washers. I tend to remember my asswhippings. For instance, I probably won't marry another redhead.

 

[Jadnashua]

Not all designs are created equal. Many people select based on price, not quality, then pay for it later when it comes time to repair or replace when it fails. Having one drain when you forget, or are lazy, and leave the hose on has some advantages.

If you've not had buyers make demands conditional to the sale of a house, you're lucky. Especially when it comes to a code issue, even if it was grandfathered. You do what you must to sell the place. If you're lucky, you can tell them to take a hike and sell it to the next person, but that depends on your market and the issue at hand. The unsophisticated buyer probably wouldn't ever notice or care.

 

[Re-engineer]

For instance, I probably won't marry another redhead.

That's too bad, because redheads are amazingly fun. I married a not-redhead though, so my redhead memories will only be good ones.

Not all designs are created equal. Many people select based on price, not quality, then pay for it later when it comes time to repair or replace when it fails.

I've stopped buying anything cheap or crappy a long time ago. I want it to work, I want to buy it once (barring something unforeseen), and if it's good enough quality I want to be able to rebuild it instead of replace it if that's an option.

The byproduct is that once you buy something that meets those conditions, you've usually bought something that's much more of a pleasure to use than a cheap product. So you're getting more enjoyment out of it, even if it is something relatively silly like a hose hookup.

It's just like tools and anything else; there's just something satisfying about something that works well, and is properly built, and installs nicely, and has a nice precision feel to it.


I think I'll probably get the top style for the back of the house where most of the water use is, and the bottom style for the front of the house where it only gets used occasionally (if at all) and never has a hose permanently attached.

 

[Reach4]

Interesting. I don't know why they wouldn't build that into the bottom one too. With the valve seat already relocated (for freeze proof), the bottom one could just as easily be self-draining with the same type of vac breaker I would imagine.

Where would the water drain out of?

 

[Quarterball]

Then we suggest one of these:

Please visit the "Where to Buy" section of our website www.quarter-ball.com

 

[Re-engineer]

Where would the water drain out of?

The drains would have to be added, unless I'm not understanding how the drains work. I'm just saying that there probably is a way to add drains and all the other features by just changing the casting type from the top picture to the bottom picture, keeping all of the components the same as the top one. Just thinking out loud.

 

[Quarterball]

From an intellectual/engineering standpoint, you are correct - there are any number of ways to make the sillcock self-draining with the hose left attached. However, it's important to understand the perspective of the manufacturer. 10's of 1,000's of $$ (if not 100's) in: tooling to develop the new design, certification costs (ASSE, UPC, CSA, etc), increased inventory costs (several lengths x several inlet connection styles), increased SG& A costs to market, sell, & manage the new product, just to name a few. The ROI may or may not be worth the investment.

Besides that, it's easy.

 

[Re-engineer]

From an intellectual/engineering standpoint, you are correct - there are any number of ways to make the sillcock self-draining with the hose left attached. However, it's important to understand the perspective of the manufacturer. 10's of 1,000's of $$ (if not 100's) in: tooling to develop the new design, certification costs (ASSE, UPC, CSA, etc), increased inventory costs (several lengths x several inlet connection styles), increased SG& A costs to market, sell, & manage the new product, just to name a few. The ROI may or may not be worth the investment.

Besides that, it's easy.

I understand that part, I was just trying to figure why each style of casting had particular features or not. I bet the margin on wall faucets is pretty low, especially for a cast and post-machined part with a multipiece valve assembly, etc.

 

[Reach4]

I'm just saying that there probably is a way to add drains and all the other features by just changing the casting type from the top picture to the bottom picture, keeping all of the components the same as the top one.

The more mechanisms, the more to go wrong, don't you think? While you are at it, you might check the air admittance valve action to see how to clean or replace those parts when the dribbling starts. For example, does that lid unscrew in the bottom unit, or pry off? Having two kinds makes you learn two kinds, and maybe get two kinds of repair kits. Are they both available locally? Try this search in a search engine:
prier leaking parts .

Anyway, if you find the self-draining a desirable feature, why not put the top unit both places? I wonder how you replace the leaking part on the top picture unit.

While you are thinking about your new hydrant, if you have a water softener, you might consider adding a soft water output. I wish I had one for mixing weed killer or car washing. As it is, I carry the sprayer backpack to the tub. Some like hot available for car washing, or even outside hand washing.

Incidentally, ball valves are usually more reliable.