Adding a booster pump/tank

[Snaefell Rancher]

Hello, first time posting here, have a question I hope you can help me with;
Our house is serviced by a well, with submersible jet pump, plus a pressure tank.
The house is over 1,300 feet away, and uphill from the well head and pressure tank.
As a result, we have low pressure, and low volume at the taps.
We have lived with this for 19 years, but now it is time to improve thesituation.

What I plan to do is install a second jet pump here at the house, 1/2 h.p.

Should I include a pressure tank?

Thanks.

 

[Valveman]

It is usually a jet pump or a submersible pump. But it could be a two pipe jet pump with a jet assembly submerged in the well. Best way to tell is that a submersible pump has everything down the well while a jet pump will have a pump/motor sitting on the floor by or above the well.

Maybe all you have to do is increase the pressure switch setting. If it is a submersible pump you can probably turn it up as much as you want, like 60/80. If it is a jet pump you are limited by the max pressure the pump can build, which is usually about 60 PSI, so a pressure switch setting of about 40/60.

Oh and to answer your question, yes you would need another pressure tank/pressure switch for a booster pump. But you would also need to make sure the first pump will supply enough water to boost.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Snaefell Rancher]

[QUOTE="valveman,

Thank you for that.
The existing pump is definitely a submersible. I just don't know the correct terminology.
As for raising the pressure, I did that a couple of years ago when I replaced the old (saturated) pressure tank
with a new, larger one. The increased pressure definitely improved things, now we need more pressure and volume
to improve the performance of some irrigation we have recently installed for fruit trees and a greenhouse.
I spoke with a plumbing wholesaler we deal with, looking for p&d on a pressure tank/jet pump combo,
they advised that we go with a booster pump instead, said that they are superior to the "old way" and much quieter.
They quoted us on the Little Giant 92061501 and the Grundfos MQ3-35
So I ordered the Grundfos, it does not require a pressure tank, the L.G. does, they tell me.

Now my concern is that there is sufficient flow or volume from the submersible, to feed the booster.

 

[Valveman]

[QUOTE="valveman,

Thank you for that.
The existing pump is definitely a submersible. I just don't know the correct terminology.
As for raising the pressure, I did that a couple of years ago when I replaced the old (saturated) pressure tank
with a new, larger one. The increased pressure definitely improved things, now we need more pressure and volume
to improve the performance of some irrigation we have recently installed for fruit trees and a greenhouse.
I spoke with a plumbing wholesaler we deal with, looking for p&d on a pressure tank/jet pump combo,
they advised that we go with a booster pump instead, said that they are superior to the "old way" and much quieter.
They quoted us on the Little Giant 92061501 and the Grundfos MQ3-35
So I ordered the Grundfos, it does not require a pressure tank, the L.G. does, they tell me.

Now my concern is that there is sufficient flow or volume from the submersible, to feed the booster.

Yeah you can't boost pressure with water you don't have. MQ does have a tank. It is the size of a baseball and built into the pump. The tank being too small is just one of many problems with the MQ. They are not know to last very long. You would be better off installing a well pump that will deliver the flow and pressure you need.

And if you tell us what size the well pump is and how deep it is set, we can tell you how high you could turn it up. But normally if the well pump won't supply enough volume for the job, a booster pump will just collapse the line trying to suck water it can't get.

 

[Snaefell Rancher]

Thanks Valveman. I was concerned about the small tank size on the MQ, but figured that since the inlet water is under pressure (fed from the existing pump & tank system) it would not matter.
The reason I chose the Grundfos over the Little Giant was because the L.G. requires a pressure tank, and the mechanical room I plan to install the booster pump in is fairly tight with 2 hwt's and a furnace, just enough room in there to turn around.
Oh, and the water service for the house comes up through the floor of that mech. room.

The well is 6", and 320' ( I think) the gpm and water depth I don't know. The well was put in by the previous owner, not much info was left for me. The
The key factor is that the house is more than 1,300 feet from the well head, and probably a good 80' higher.
Water pressure and volume at our main barn (400' from the well and 10' lower) is great.

The literature states that the Grundfos shuts off, if it runs out of water, and automatically re-starts.
Not saying you're wrong, just reporting what I've read, and I don't know enough about these applications.

 

[Valveman]

You can push water 1800' and uphill 80', but you can't suck water from that distance and elevation. And the MQ won't see low amperage like when a well is pumped dry. It will just suck as hard as it can, and give up, but probably won't shut off on dry run. It will shut off on lack of flow with the little flow sensor in the unit, but then it will just bounce right back on because the pressure is low and it starts on low pressure. The only way I see a booster working in that application, is if you fill a storage tank with the well water, and use the MQ to pump from the storage tank to the house.

I would have spent my money on a well pump that would give the flow and pressure needed, then put a little pressure reducing valve at the main barn so it would not have too much pressure.

I am afraid cavitation will be your problem, as the booster will try to pump more water than it can get. If the well pump can keep at least 10 PSI in the line at the house it MIGHT work. But I can see lots of reasons it MIGHT NOT work.

 

[Snaefell Rancher]

I appreciate your input and concerns. The existing system has no problem supplying continuous flow, albeit at low volume and pressure.
So far, we have not run the well out of water, hopefully we never do.
I like the idea of a tank to hold well water, around here we'd probably call that a cistern.
I had one of those in the basement of our previous home.
Now I have more to think about to decide whats best for this application.

I plan to install filtration when the plumbing is apart for the booster install.
Would you install the filters after the pump, or before?
The water is pretty clear, little to no sediment, until there is a power outage and the water gets drawn down,
then you see muddy red for a while, until the air clears from the pipes.

Thanks.

 

[Valveman]

If the pressure and volume are already low, they will be even lower when you add a booster pump to start sucking on the line. If the incoming line pressure drops below zero, you will have problems. And put any filters after the booster pump, as they will further restrict the volume and pressure to the booster.

And a good quality, standard jet pump only needs a very small tank. And the tank can be mounted on top of the jet pump to take up less space, as in the following picture. With the little baseball size tank in the MQ, the pump will have to come on if the faucet drips a few drops.

 

[Snaefell Rancher]

I picked up the pump today 'cause I said I would but can return or exchange it if necessary.
Reading the manual that came with the pump I see that there is a maximum inlet pressure of 40 p.s.i.
After reading that, I decided to make my next move the installation of a pressure gauge, to see what high and low pressure we are getting at the house as the existing pump cycles. Also have to replace the gauge at the well head, it quit working a couple of years ago.
Should have done all this first but "too soon old, too late smart"
Thanks again.