5800xtr2 on 1.5cu/ft3 efficiency configuration

[YamahaR6]

I've had my 1.5cu/ft3 softener with a fleck 5800 xtr2 for a few months now and I would like to see if I can tune it to be more efficient specifically for my needs rather than using "close to defaults". As i am on well water and septic, although I do have a 175 storage tank, can i get more efficient on the water usage and maintain a responsible salt usage?

**Well water**
Water was tested to 7gpg
No Iron
Valve - 5800 xtr2
1.5 cu/ft3 8% resin
DLFC - 2.4gpm
Injector 00
BLFC - .12
Downflow
Variable Reserve
Currently on 6lbs salt setting
Currently on a 30k capacity instead of the 48k.
RT:12am
BW:10
BD:60
RR:10
BF:25

Is there a recommended setup to try?

 

[Reach4]

Do you have a Hach 5B kit to test residual hardness?

I would not go below 6 under normal circumstances. If you really wanted to save more salt, you could go to 5, but the savings would not be so much. It would take a little more water that way, because you would regen a little more often. If you were more interested in saving water than salt, then maybe go to 8. 8 is still in the responsible range, and gives you a little softer water.

RT:12am

Early to bed?

BW:10

You could drop that to 5 to save some water (5x2.4 gallons)

BD:60

With a #00 Injector - Violet, I would increase that to 80 minutes. The symptom of BD being too short would be a bit of residual salt after each regeneration. So if no symptom is detected, you could leave that at 60. Expect your brine to be drawn in about 21.1 minutes, and BD is usually set to 4x, or at least 3x, that amount.

RR:10

You could drop that to 5 or 6 also. More water saving.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[YamahaR6]

Thank you for the recommendations Reach4.
From your details, it seems that as long as I have the harness taken care of, confirmed by a Hach kit, then it comes down to adjusting the rinses to save on water.
What are the symptoms of BW and RR being too short? I would assume I'd see either of those as an increase in hardness again?
On the BD, is there a recommended way to check for residual salt post regen or is it simply a tongue test?

 

[Reach4]

On the BD, is there a recommended way to check for residual salt post regen or is it simply a tongue test?

Tongue or cheap TDS tester. Don't test the hot, because there is a big buffering that prevents quick changes to the incoming water from appearing.

Note as softener does not reduce TDS. However extra salt in the soft water would show up. I have never tried this, but it should work.

Suppose you wanted to study this. The best would be to test the softener drain water during the BD cycle. Test at intervals, maybe every 5 or 10 minutes after 40 minutes. If you gather the data, post it. We are curious what you actually find.

 

[YamahaR6]

Good thought on the TDS. I'll grab a meter and try it on my next regen.
Update to follow.

 

[YamahaR6]

Update - I left my settings the same as mentioned previously for this regen.
**Well water**
Water was tested to 7gpg
No Iron
Valve - 5800 xtr2
1.5 ft3 8% resin
DLFC - 2.4gpm
Injector 00
BLFC - .12
Downflow
Variable Reserve
Currently on 6lbs salt setting
Currently on a 30k capacity instead of the 48k.
BW:10
BD:60
RR:10
BF:25

Initial Raw water from storage tank that feeds the regen: 118 ppm

Backwash TDS(ppm) (10 minutes @ 1 min intervals):
start - 176
1 min - 154
2 min - 154
3 min - 153
4 min - 152
5 min - 152
6 min - 151
7 min - 151
8 min - 150
9 min - 150
end - 150

BrineDraw TDS(ppm) (60 minutes @ 5 min intervals):
start - 148
1 min - 147
5 min - 148
10 min - 152
15 min - 1636
20 min - error no reading
@ 21.30 min this seemed to be when the brine check valve closed as there was a change in the suction sound that remained for the rest of the brine draw.
25 min - error no reading
30 min - 1750 with error
35 min - 1756 with error
40 min - 1756 with error
45 min - 1705 with error
50 min - 1743 with error
55 min - 1668 with error
60 min - 1453 with error

RapidRinse TDS(ppm) (10 minutes @ 1 min intervals):
start - 2800
1 min - 580
2 min - 346
3 min - 264
4 min - 237
5 min - 214
6 min - 198
7 min - 188
8 min - 179
9 min - 175
end - 166

 

[Reach4]

Nice data collection! Your info is not only productive to you, but educational for others.

BD:60

Increase BD to 80 or 85.

45 min - 1705 with error
50 min - 1743 with error
55 min - 1668 with error
60 min - 1453 with error

RapidRinse TDS(ppm) (10 minutes @ 1 min intervals):
start - 2800
1 min - 580
2 min - 346
3 min - 264
4 min - 237
5 min - 214
6 min - 198
7 min - 188
8 min - 179
9 min - 175
end - 166

The rapid rinse is not supposed to be the cycle that does the salt removal. With your increased BD, I expect the TDS to be below 250 at the end of the brine draw cycle. The BD cycle is more laminar (orderly and non-turbulent).

I was thinking "error" could be like out of the more accurate range. However you did not indicate error on 2800. Easy to miss I expect.

 

[YamahaR6]

The 2800 on the RR probably did flash with error. I didn't record the error in my data, but you're probably right that it did. I was considering those errors as out-of-range.

For my next regen, I'll change the BD over to 85 to see how that changes things.

Does the TDS data on the BW or RR change the recommendation on setting to 5/6 minutes?
On the BW, 2ppm is probably insignificant between the 5 minutes and 8 minutes, but does 5 minutes provide enough time for the "un-compaction" of the
resin?

I would expect a delta on the RR on the next go, as a result of extending the BD, so I'll give it a shot at 6 minutes to see what it looks like.

 

[Reach4]

Does the TDS data on the BW or RR change the recommendation on setting to 5/6 minutes?

Presuming the TDS drops off a lot before the RR, I don't think so.

See https://terrylove.com/forums/index....re-im-not-using-500gal-day.70196/#post-520420

Because you have the #00, your BD is longer. Your BD is actually a bit more salt-efficient than the typical.

 

[Bannerman]

Does the TDS data on the BW or RR change the recommendation on setting to 5/6 minutes?

The purpose for Rapid Rinse is to recompact the resin so that regular service flow to fixtures is forced to flow through a tight resin bed as opposed to flowing through spaces between resin beads.

Back Wash is intended to flush away any debris which entered during service flow, and also to loosen and reclassify the resin bed so the brine can more easily flow throught the spaces between resin beads so the beads will be saturated with brine from all sides. Reclassification will redistribute the resin beads as beads closest to the tank walls will typically be exposed to less flow and will have less capacity used than resin beads located closer to the center of the tank.

but does 5 minutes provide enough time for the "un-compaction" of the
resin?

A recent thread regarding Vortec tanks, included a link to an article which suggested 10 minutes BW is needed to allow sufficient time for clumped resin beads to become unstuck and reclassified as intended. Ten minutes BW has been the long-standing standard which is likely best observed. Rapid Rinse time is less critical as service water flowing through a down flow softener, will act to compact the resin bed.

If I listen to my 10" softener after Rapid Rinse is initiated, I can clearly hear water flow significantly change after about 2-3 minutes, seemingly suggesting the resin bed has compacted which is impacting the ease of flow through the resin bed.

 

[YamahaR6]

I made the changes;
BD - 80 (from 60)
RR - 5 (from 10)

I captured the following data for TDS along the cycle:
Initial Raw from storage tank that feeds system: 143 ppm

BW (tds ppm per minute):
start - 171
1 min - 150
2 min - 147
3 min - 147
4 min - 146
5 min - 146
6 min - 146
7 min - 143
8 min - 145
9 min - 145
end - 145

BD (tds ppm per 5 minute):
start - 143
1 min - 143
5 min - 144
10 min - 145
15 min - 9882
20 min - error
25 min - error
30 min - error
35 min - 1728 error
40 min - 1720 error
45 min -1716 error
50 min - 1714 error
55 min - 1652 error
60 min - 1211 error (consider this one an error)
65 min - 1685
70 min - 1183
75 min - 623
80 min - 465


RR (tds ppm per minute):
start - 456
1 min - 293
2 min - 187
3 min - 161
4 min - 157
5 min - 153


It looks like i may still have some residual so bumping BW to 85 may flush the remaining.

 

[Reach4]

It looks like i may still have some residual so bumping BW to 85 may flush the remaining.

I would try 90 instead, having seen your results.

 

[Bannerman]

I may still have some residual so bumping BW to 85 may flush the remaining.

I think you mean increasing Brine Draw, not Back Wash.

How long does it take to draw the brine out from the brine tank (to when the Air Check closes)? The usual recommended BD setting is 4X the amount of time needed to draw all the brine from the brine tank.

 

[John Clint]

I've had my 1.5cu/ft3 softener with a fleck 5800 xtr2 for a few months now and I would like to see if I can tune it to be more efficient specifically for my needs rather than using "close to defaults". As i am on well water and septic, although I do have a 175 storage tank, can i get more efficient on the water usage and maintain a responsible salt usage?

**Well water**
Water was tested to 7gpg
No Iron
Valve - 5800 xtr2
1.5 cu/ft3 8% resin
DLFC - 2.4gpm
Injector 00
BLFC - .12
Downflow
Variable Reserve
Currently on 6lbs salt setting
Currently on a 30k capacity instead of the 48k.
RT:12am
BW:10
BD:60
RR:10
BF:25

Is there a recommended setup to try?

Hi there,
How is your XTR2 is performing so far.
Would like to get one as well, but lcd screen kinda makes me worry about the screen service life.
Thanks.

 

[Reader90]

Hi there,
How is your XTR2 is performing so far.
Would like to get one as well, but lcd screen kinda makes me worry about the screen service life.
Thanks.

I have both a 5810XTR2 (softener tank) and 5810STX (Carbon Filter). I really like the valve, like the data I can get from it, easy to program. I have had mine ~2 years now. No issues.