Critique newbies 5800SXT settings

[Kelmomas]

Thanks for all the resources in this forum! Very helpful as I lurked and did my research.

I settled on a 5800SXT and my calculations are different than what the supplier recommends, so I was hoping some in here could weigh in.

Hatch 5b test @ 12 gpg
Roughly 165 gallons a day usage

Based on those calculations, I settled on a 1.0 cuft tank. (165*12= 1,980 grains per day)

Target salt usage is 6lbs/cu ft (or simply 6 lbs in this 1.0 tank)

Injector #00
Labeled ".12 GPM - .37 LB Salt/min"
So I assumed the BLFC of 0.125 for the below calcs.

My settings are here, changing only C, BF and DO from supplier's recommendations:

DF= Gal: Units
VT = 5800
RF = df1b
CT = Fd
C = 21.0 x 1000
H = 13 ; Hardness-- (Hardness Compensation = 1.12)
RS = cr
DO = 14 (average usage should trigger regen in 10 days)
RT = 2:00
BD = 60
BW = 5
RR = 5
BF = 16
FM = p0.7


My biggest critiques are BF and C pairs based on the 6 lb/cuft salt usage target. Supplier's BF suggestion was 50% higher than mine which gives me pause. The C was very slightly lower.

I'm waiting on a couple parts today to install, so I haven't hooked anything up yet to check if this is all accurate on the unit itself, so apologies for any inaccuracies.


Does the 5800SXT naturally refill with conditioned water or is there a setting I need to hit?

Bonus question: Does anyone know why the BFLC on the 5800 is so low at 0.125 GPM? Is there a reason for it to be four times slower compared to the 5600 @ 0.5gpm?


Thanks for any insight you can provide!

Kel

 

[Reach4]

I plan to revisit the numbers later.

0.125 BLFC gives better granularity. During BF, the softener is in service.

the 5800SXT does naturally refill with conditioned water, from what I understand. 5600SXT does not.

Are you sure you have a paddlewheel rather than a turbine?

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Kelmomas]

I'd appreciate your thoughts, Reach. More granularity makes sense.

Confirmed paddlewheel. Assembly looks just like this:

paddle wheel

 

[Bannerman]

Supplier's BF suggestion was 50% higher than mine which gives me pause.

Your BF setting is correct for dissolving 6 lbs salt to regenerate 21,000 grains per cycle. See chart below.

Many suppliers will pre-set a 1ft3 softener to regenerate when 24,000 grains capacity has been depleted, but will pre-set the BF setting for 9 lbs salt to be dissolved which is a little more salt than actually needed.

why the BFLC on the 5800 is so low at 0.125 GPM? Is there a reason for it to be four times slower compared to the 5600 @ 0.5gpm?

The BLFC flow rate is governed by which flow BLFC restrictor has been installed. There are 0.125, 0.25, 0.5 & 1 GPM BLFC flow restrictors available for both the 5600 and 5800 control valves.

 

[Reach4]

5800SXT System info (not programmed)
salt lb/cuft : 7 ; A choice ( efficiency vs capacity)
BLFC : 0.125 ; Brine Refill rate GPM
cubic ft resin : 1.0 ; Same as (nominal grains/32,000)
Raw hardness : 12.0 ; including iron etc
Estimated gal/day 165.0 ; 60 gal per person typical calc
Est days/regen 10.4 ; presuming days each use reserve capacity


Fleck 5800SXT Settings:
DF = Gal ; Units
VT = 5800.0 ; Valve type
RF = dF2b ; Downflow, Double Backwash
CT = Fd ; Meter Delayed regen trigger
C = 22.0 ; capacity in 1000 grains
H = 13 ; Hardness grains after comp factor
RS = rc ; rc says use gallons vs percent
RC = 165 ; Reserve capacity gallons
DO = 30 ; Day Override (typ 30 if no iron/Mn, as with city water)
RT = 2:00 ; Regen time (default 2 AM)
B1 = 6 ; Backwash 1 (minutes) [3...10]
Bd = 60 ; Brine draw minutes #00 Injector - Violet ** (corrected BD)
B2 = 4 ; Backwash 2 (minutes)[3...10]
RR = 6 ; Rapid Rinse minutes [5...10]
BF = 19 ; Brine fill minutes
FM = P0.7 ; flow meter

The big difference from what you have is BD=140 minutes. I expect it to take about 15.9 minutes to draw the brine if using BF=19 for 7 lb/cuft . So 60 minutes is more than 15.9*3.5, go with 60. Now with 6 lb/cuft , it take about 13.6 minutes to draw the brine, then there is even more margin.

 

[Kelmomas]

Thanks Reach. A few more clarifications:
I am on city water so the DO at 30 is an interesting point.

My intent was a 6 lb salt/cu ft target, so I assume Bannerman has confirmed my settings for C/BF there.

Double backwash is correct? Does that take more water or uses the same water, just more time? I'm less worried about hardness breakthrough than I am efficiency.

The BD extension is an interesting point I hadn't seen tweaked yet in my forum lurking. What causes that extension here that I haven't seen in other setups? Is the #00 injector the issue? It is labeled "Injector 00 - Drain Flow 2.0 gpm". Is it worth disassembling to confirm violet?

Thanks so much to both of you for all the expertise!

 

[Bannerman]

Does that take more water or uses the same water, just more time?

Each Backwash cycle will flow at the full Drain Flow rate. You mentioned the DLFC (drain line flow control) rate is 2.0 GPM, then a 6-minute BW + 4-minute BW will utilize 20 gallons water for both BW cycles. Double Backwash is normally recommended while utilizing a very low salt dose, typically less than 6 lbs/ft3. Since you are intending for no less than 6 lbs/ft3, suggest utilizing a single 6-minute BW, thereby reducing regeneration time by 4- minutes and also saving 8-gallons water each regeneration cycle.

What causes that extension here that I haven't seen in other setups? Is the #00 injector the issue?

The injector flow rate governs the BD setting. The time needed to transfer the full required quantity of brine from the brine tank to the media tank should be approx. 1/4 of the BD setting.

Usually, the injector will be sized so as to transfer the required quantity of brine within the initial ~15-minutes of a 60-minute BD setting, so the remaining ~45-minutes of slow rinse flow, will continue to slowly push the brine through the resin bed, while also rinsing the resin to expel calcium, magnesium, chloride and excess sodium to drain. Transferring the brine through your 00 injector, will require longer than 15-minutes, which is why R4 specified an extended BD setting. A lower flowing brine cycle than the 60-minute minimum, will slightly increase regeneration efficiency to some minor degree, but most softeners are equipped with a higher flowing injector to minimize the regeneration time requirement.

While you have chosen 6lbs salt per ft3 resin to increase salt efficiency, keep in mind, higher salt efficiency, compromises the quality of the soft water and will increase the frequency of regeneration. A lower salt setting will cause a higher amount of hardness leakage through the resin which results in lower water quality, and more frequent regenerations will result in an increased amount of water consumption for regeneration when measured over a month or year.

For the best balance of salt efficiency, water quality and water efficiency, the usual recommended salt setting is 8 lbs/ft3 to regenerate 24,000 grains of usable capacity. Hardness reduction efficiency = 24,000 gr / 8lbs = 3,000 grains per lb of salt.

 

[Reach4]

I have been miscalculating that aspect for the 5800. I expect to return with correct info on BD for you. But as of now, I am sure your original BD = 60 is going to be correct. I have edited post #5 to reflect that, but left it at 7 lb/cuft. Using the 6 lb/cuft will give even more time to let the brine bolus work thru the resin column and down the drain.

 

[Kelmomas]

All good, R4. After reading Bannermans reasoning, I realized it's not only salt efficiency, but water as well. I think I'll stay on 7 salt lb/ cu ft and maintain your settings. It's all set up. Thanks a million for the input!