5800 XTR2

[David Isom]

Hi again ...

I have recently installed the above with .88cu ft resin (25 litres) I am in Europe. it’s going very well and prior to first regen have been testing water daily to get an idea of how much water the unit can soften at maximum capacity. What I have noticed is that the counters in the unit are way off from my utilities water meter . I have today made a manual check and it seems that if water is run continuously the counter is pretty accurate. However if you draw just a little water at a time then the counter adds Up much more quickly. As an example I have used around 3800 litres less than 1000 us gallons but the totalizar on the 5800 tells me that is registers 6000 litres of water used that’s over 1550 gallons I.e over by more than 50%. Can’t think why it’s so bad at counting water flowing through. Any comments much appreciated to what’s going on ?

on this basis I will have to do a manual regen every time !

I have checked programming and it says .75 turbine. Is there any way I can check exactly what is fitted ?


David

 

[Reach4]

There can be phantom counting. That would not usually happen when you are actually using hot water -- even a little-- but when no hot water is being used. The turbine will register reverse flow as flow, just as it would normal flow.

That can be from hot water expansion, and contraction flows, in a water heater tank, through the softener. On rare occasions, it could be pressure pulsations from a city water supply causing the phantom flows.

What is your pressure tank (well or booster) or thermal expansion tank situation?

If you get phantom counting, you can stop that with a spring-loaded check valve after the softener, and having a working thermal expansion tank downstream of that -- usually at the water heater.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[David Isom]

Hi, thank you for responding. Pretty certain it’s either a fault or wrong type of meter setup. We have no expansion tank and I have installed a non return valve in line after softener. I am trying it by setting up generic meter and counting pulses. I have made some tests by drawing 10 litres of water at a time and tweaking settings and with what I have found it seems 42 gets it as close as I can, have reset counters and will run over a longer period i.e 10o litres plus and check the results . Hoping this fixes it and it’s not a software or board issue. I will report back. David

 

[Reach4]

Hi, thank you for responding. Pretty certain it’s either a fault or wrong type of meter setup. We have no expansion tank and I have installed a non return valve in line after softener.

On-demand water heater, rather than tank type? If tank type, you should add a thermal expansion tank.

. I have made some tests by drawing 10 litres of water at a time and tweaking settings and with what I have found it seems 42 gets it as close as I can, have reset counters and will run over a longer period i.e 10o litres plus and check the results . Hoping this fixes it and it’s not a software or board issue. I will report back.

Sounds reasonable.

 

[David Isom]

On-demand water heater, rather than tank type? If tank type, you should add a thermal expansion tank.


Sounds reasonable.

Forgot to say we have tankless water heating system

 

[Edvs]

The xtr2 on a 5810 valve, with the default meter configuration, is inaccurate. I did some experiments a couple of years ago that showed this, posted at https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?posts/577012/. I don't think the reverse flow due to hot water expansion is causing the error, as the expansion flow is probably not fast enough to rotate the turbine. You might try changing your controller configuration to Generic meter, with an appropriate setting for pulses per liter. I am not sure what that value would be for the 3/4" turbine. I suspect Generic will get you much more accurate results.

 

[David Isom]

Hi mine is 5800. I am trying generic and playing with number of pulses . Thanks

 

[Bannerman]

Post a photo of the FlowMeter to verify yours is a 0.75" turbine. The flow meter is located in the outlet connection between the control valve and the bypass valve. The outlet connection will be on the left when facing the softener from the front. The meter will have an electrical cable exiting which will plug into the softener's control circuit board.

The appropriate 'K' setting for a 5800 3/4" turbine is 133 pulses per gallon so I anticipate that should be 35 pulses per Litre which should have been automatically programmed when choosing t0.75 as the FM type.

The 5810 valve that 'edvs' is using, utilizes an alternate flow meter that sends 80 pulses per gallon to the controller.

Edit: keep in mind that the home's water utility meter and the softener meter will not read identical. Any water connections before the softener will not be softened so the softener meter will not measure that flow. Also, since the softener flow meter only measures the soft water output flowing to home faucets and fixtures, the water utilized for each regeneration will not be counted by the softener meter as that will flow directly to drain.

 

[David Isom]

Post a photo of the FlowMeter to verify yours is a 0.75" turbine. The flow meter is located in the outlet connection between the control valve and the bypass valve. The outlet connection will be on the left when facing the softener from the front. The meter will have an electrical cable exiting which will plug into the softener's control circuit board.

The appropriate 'K' setting for a 5800 3/4" turbine is 133 pulses per gallon so I anticipate that should be 35 pulses per Litre which should have been automatically programmed when choosing t0.75 as the FM type.

The 5810 valve that 'edvs' is using, utilizes an alternate flow meter that sends 80 pulses per gallon to the controller.

Edit: keep in mind that the home's water utility meter and the softener meter will not read identical. Any water connections before the softener will not be softened so the softener meter will not measure that flow. Also, since the softener flow meter only measures the soft water output flowing to home faucets and fixtures, the water utilized for each regeneration will not be counted by the softener meter as that will flow directly to drain.

Hi, have made several tests using generic meter and setting pulses. It’s now run overnight and for around 200 litres it is within 1-2% of my utility meter . The setting I have used is 40 pulses per litre. No idea why the 0.75 turbine setting was over registering water by nearly 60% though ! Will continue to check and see how it is as we consume more water. Thanks for your advice

 

[David Isom]

The xtr2 on a 5810 valve, with the default meter configuration, is inaccurate. I did some experiments a couple of years ago that showed this, posted at https://terrylove.com/forums/index.php?posts/577012/. I don't think the reverse flow due to hot water expansion is causing the error, as the expansion flow is probably not fast enough to rotate the turbine. You might try changing your controller configuration to Generic meter, with an appropriate setting for pulses per liter. I am not sure what that value would be for the 3/4" turbine. I suspect Generic will get you much more accurate results.

Have used generic and after 200 litres @ 40 pulses per litre it’s pretty close to my utility meter reading.

 

[David Isom]

On-demand water heater, rather than tank type? If tank type, you should add a thermal expansion tank.


Sounds reasonable.

Have been playing around with settings and it seems that 40 pulses per litre is pretty close. Will get a much better idea as we consume more water. Thanks for your advice

 

[David Isom]

Hi everyone after considerable testing I have found using generic meter with 39 pulses per litre provides reading close to my utility meter.

I really want to thank all who posted suggestions and advice .

This is a great forum and has helped me gain a lot of knowledge and confidence .

Thanks again, David