300gpm muddy well (video) Please help..

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Caleb211

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So here's the deal, had a well dug 8" casing inserted to 21 feet because we hit rock at 9 feet. We first hit water at 60 feet, it was about 40 gpm, we continued down to 90 feet and we were at about 300gpm, so we went to 110 and quit drilling. That's all well and good right, here is my problem.

I don't know anything about drilling and I think my well company might be getting a little lazy on me... They wouldn't air jet the well for more than 20 minutes and the whole time muddy water was just flying out of there, lots of sand, etc - he said he would try to find a 5hp pump and out it down there and just let it run until the water ran clear, is that normal? Everything I've read basically says he should jet it with air from the rig until it runs clear, can someone help me here?


Here is video link.


 
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Caleb211

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Here is a pic until I get a YouTube upload
 

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PumpMd

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I am not a well driller, I specialize in pumps & pump systems but our 6gen well driller that we recommend guarantees clear water and that is what he gives us, how their family does it, is their own work of art. Sorry I can't help when you inboxed me but I am sure somebody else can help you on here.
 
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Caleb211

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I am not a well driller but our 6gen well driller that we recommend guarantees clear water and that is what he gives us, how their family does it, is their own work of art. Sorry I can't help when you inboxed me but I am sure somebody else can on here.
Well I'm just thinking if I stick a pump down in that wel, it's only a matter of time before its jacked up right? There is all kinds of sand and mud shooting out of there. It seems like if he would just run the rig for an hour or two we could clear a lot of that up, and it wouldn't ruin my pump"
 

Craigpump

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Where are you located?

A lot has to with the geological structure of the rock the well is drilled into. Around here we have a soft red rock that can take weeks of pumping to get cleaned up. Granite and limestone usually run clean in a few minutes, sandstone and shale can take a few hours. Generally the harder the rock the quicker it cleans up.

If it doesn't clean up, a screen can be set and the well gravel packed, then developed
 

Valveman

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A small screen slot with small gravel for pack would make a filter in the well and keep the mud out. That is how most sand free wells are constructed. But being as you are in rock well country, they will usually clean up if you pump it long and hard enough. Blowing or bailing is the best way to develop a well without destroying a pump. But developing a 300 GPM well can take hours or even days. We use a high speed bailer for this purpose and it is not uncommon for a $5,000 well to need $10,000 worth of bailing. So even if you burn up a pump it could be less expensive than bailing. Put a pump in there that will do about twice as much flow as you need. This should create enough velocity in the well so that it will be clean water when using half as much as the developing pump. Be prepared to pump for days. And you may have to turn the pump off and back on several times a day to further stir up the well to get out the crud.
 

Caleb211

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I told him I want it developed for a few hours and then we can out a pump down there and try to continue pumping that junk out, also he didn't grout my well, is this a big deal?
I sent him a text expressing that I was disappointed it wasn't grouted, he is now building a "over hauler" or whatever to dig out around the casing and try to go back in and grout it. He said 15 years ago no one grouted them.

Any advice on how I should Go with this? I just found out this morning that grouting is state law, so when I questioned it that makes sense why he is doing it now.

So I feel a trust barrier has been broken, and I don't know what to do from here.
I am in East Tennessee, foot hills of Appalachian mountains so we are dealing with lime stone, although he says he hit a cave that is pretty much open for 45 feet or so (I think we hit it at 60 feet)

Any help appreciated
 

Valveman

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In our state grout or cement must be 20' deep. It is almost impossible to get 20' on an existing well. Maybe 5 or 6 feet at the most, and then it is going to be a very big diameter hole that will require a lot of grout or cement. 5 or 6 feet maybe enough to prevent well contamination but it is not as good as 20'. What is the law in your state?

How large a pump do you plan to install? If it is only a 10 GPM pump it may not pump enough to make sand. But if you are installing a 50 GPM or a 200 GPM pump, the dirt will have to be cleaned out either now or later.
 

Caleb211

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We are doing a 150gpm pump, and it says 3-10 feet in Tennessee.

He said he would develop it with the rig for 2 hours today... Hope that is enough, he said after that he will take a pump and put it out as much as possible... I am hoping 2 hours will do it, he says the void down there is large that it won't do any good to blow it for these 2 hours but he will do it anyway.

Also he wants to develop it from the top? Does that make sense, he says he doesn't want to take the drill bit to the bottom and ram air from there, I just want it clear.

Also he is using a 6 inch bit, when it's a 8inch well, said it wouldn't make a difference, that's probably true

Any ideas?
 

Valveman

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If he can't blow more than about 200 GPM then I would agree with him. You are going to need to move some volume to develop the well. If you are going to use a 150 GPM pump then you need to develop with a 200+ GPM pump. That way the velocity during development will be higher than during normal pumping. And you can also tell the actual pumping level so you can determine how deep you need to set the pump.

You can probably use the 150 GPM pump you plan on installing to develop the well. Pumping wide open with no pressure on it, a 150 GPM pump will probably move close to 200 GPM.
 

Texas Wellman

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I started to make a post but in all reality things vary so much from place to place that there is really nothing more valuable than learned knowledge of what works in any particular area. For example, there is a sand in this area about 300' deep that looks great. Good color and coarse sand but if you set in it the water is horrible. Best to just go down to the next strata about 450'.

I assume you have not paid for the well in full? The last thing your driller wants to hear is about how you read about this or that on the internet and questioning his methods. I would stfu and simply let him know you will pay him in full once the well is producing clean clear water.
 

Caleb211

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You are right, he doesn't want to hear about that, but please consider what I'm dealing with. He didn't grout the well, he keeps pretty much telling me things that are false, and I just want things done the right way. Problem is, I don't know how to do that- he does but I really feel like he is unwilling to spend the time. I was ready to spend 10k on drilling but we hit unlimited water at 2500$, so he is just ready to leave and I want my well developed.

If you could give advice I would really appreciate it
 

Craigpump

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Read your contract, most that I've seen DONT guarantee water or quality of the water.

If he did indeed hit a cave, it could be loaded with silts, sands, crushed stone and who knows what else. Is this well intended for domestic or other purposes?
 

Caleb211

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When we put the drill all the way to the bottom and blow, it doesn't blow out any air. Apparently the void is so large down there nothing happens, we are going to put a pump in it an hope that clears it up.
 

Caleb211

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So now the well apparently caved in at85 feet deep... Is this normal? He wants to put the pump in at 55 feet (the static water level is 30 feet).

Is it normal for a well to cave in even before we put the pump in?

I never signed a contract, but I want to do what's right here.
 

Reach4

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I am ignorant of drilling, such as not understanding the thing about using a 6 inch bit on an 8 inch well. But seems to me that if the well caved in, the well should have had a casing. OK, too late, and maybe the cave-in was not foreseeable. So now, how about putting in a casing to 85 ft?
 

Craigpump

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You may find that with the pump at 55' the water will clear up, but it may not..

As for running more casing, here is my big concern. IF you get that stick of pipe out, you'll need a hole opener to follow the existing well in order to have a reasonably straight hole. While you're drilling, you're going to have all that water trying to undermine the rig. Then, there's no guarantee you'll get casing in through the void.
 

Reach4

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IF you get that stick of pipe out, you'll need a hole opener to follow the existing well in order to have a reasonably straight hole.
I was thinking he might put in a smaller casing through the upper casing. If the pump is an "8 inch well" and that casing is 8 inches, lots of room. Even if the upper casing is 6 inch, how about a 5 inch casing?
 
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