Help assessing this estimate I got.

[Lee_Leses]

Could someone or several people who know about plumbing read this estimate and tell me what you think of this pricing please? I was a little surprised that they didn't want to do the vanity top for me and that instead they recommended that I consult Lowe's or Home Depot? How does the estimating process usually work for a professional plumber? Do you usually come out first to see it or can you usually price standard jobs like this without seeing the job? And how much would you say pricing would vary in different areas of the country? I live in Pennsylvania near Philadelphia. Lastly, in general would a scheduled appointment for a Saturday 8am-4pm be charged as emergency service because it's not during Monday-Friday? I was also told that! Thank you!

Custom Services - Big Blue Filter
$75.00 Change big blue whole house filter with customer supplied filter and O-ring

Custom Services - Solar Salt $198.00 Provide enough salt pellets to fill water softener - 50lb bag

Water Closet - GERBER 12" ELONG CLO WHT $675.00 Supply and install new Gerber Viper 12" rough comfort-height white elongated toilet with matching soft-close seat

Install - Toilet shutoff valve $165.00 The shutoff on your toilet consists of angle stop and flex line. These parts connect your toilet to the water line, wear out over time and need to be replaced.

Faucet Install - SGL HDL Kitchen Faucet $325.00 Supply and install Moen Chateau chrome no-spray faucet - plate to cover 3-hole

TOTAL $1,438.00 !!!

*For the new vanity top, would recommend Home Depot/Lowes to supply and install one of your choice. We would also recommend getting a new faucet to go with the new vanity top.

 

[Reach4]

Do you usually come out first to see it or can you usually price standard jobs like this without seeing the job?

How much would you say spending two hours to come out to assess your job is worth?

And how much would you say pricing would vary in different areas of the country? I live in Pennsylvania near Philadelphia.

It would vary a lot.

Custom Services - Solar Salt $198.00 Provide enough salt pellets to fill water softener - 50lb bag

50 lb will not fill most softener brine tanks with salt.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Lee_Leses]

Thank you Reach, all of that is helpful.

And I was thinking that too! I thought more like two 40 pound bags.

You gave me an idea, I wonder if the manual for the softener tells you the salt needed to fill. Will check on that.

 

[Reach4]

Thank you Reach, all of that is helpful.

And I was thinking that too! I thought more like two 40 pound bags.

You gave me an idea, I wonder if the manual for the softener tells you the salt needed to fill. Will check on that.

If you can handle the bags, that is a good DIY thing, but don't hurt your back. Use of a plumber for that is overkill. Your yard or cleaning person, if strong , could do that.

Keep enough salt in the softener to have some salt above water between regenerations. You can put a lot more that that in. Don't worry about overfilling. https://view.publitas.com/impact-water-products/2018-catalog-final/page/132 has a nice table to tell you how much salt different brine tanks can hold. It may be that putting in 200 lbs at a time is more efficient if you are having some body do it for you.

I suspect you would pay more inside of Philadelphia.

 

[Helper Dave]

Are those estimates separated out per job? Some of the prices seem a little high. Like putting a stop and supply on the toilet probably wouldn't be that much if they're already putting a toilet in, as well. Tough to say for Philly, but we'd bake some of those prices together.

I don't think there's too many plumbers out there that would install a vanity top, though. We don't really have the equipment to do that job well. So I'm not surprised by that.

Most plumbers charge a lot more for a weekend job.

And we usually only supply 50 lbs of salt with brine tanks, too. That's all that's needed to get them started. Customers can purchase more just as easy as we can, so no value in us doing it.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Many shops perhaps less than half but many charge what market will bear If they can come out and make 500 in an hour thats what they do if your old or dumb they charge more if your a little more savy they adjust. charge as much as you can and if customer says yes than they arent doing anything wrong. So prices are all over the place just as the quality of work varies. A higher price might mean better work it might not. its hit or miss

 

[hj]

If you buy a complete Cadillac, it costs $xx,xxx.00. If you buy it piece by piece, it is $xxx,xxx.00. They are giving you the prices as if they are doing each job separately. A friend once took his VW to a dealer to have three items taken care of. When he got the estimate he said, "You are charging me to take the motor out three times, why? The dealer said, because the blue book says each of those items requires that the engine be removed. Since he would not change the estimate, my friend told him to schedule task 1 for that day, he would bring it back the next day for tasak #2, and then return it the third day for task #3, and told the dealer, "If I am paying to remove the engine three times, you WILL remove it three times".

 

[Terry]

https://www.plumbersstock.com/gerber-vp-21-518-viper.html
The Viper doesn't sell for much it seems.

I think I need to charge what your guy is charging, and buy some new vans.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Everyone operates differant. I have my opinion on fair prices I dont like to critique an estimate but some of it looks high to me.
On a side note who cares if it holds 50 pounds of salt or 65 ? its like 5 bucks for the cheap and 12 for the expensive.
I dont know why there was 2 hour assesment at the house . I guess the point is there is time involved in being a plumber and someones got to pay for all those free estimates . but thats a valid reason I suppose.

 

[Reach4]

On a side note who cares if it holds 50 pounds of salt or 65 ?

A brine tank will usually hold 200 pounds or more. I figure if you are going to pay somebody else to fill your softener brine tank with salt, you might as well want to get it topped a the same time, rather than needing to add more salt in a couple of months.

I dont know why there was 2 hour assesment at the house . I guess the point is there is time involved in being a plumber and someones got to pay for all those free estimates . but thats a valid reason I suppose.

I was guessing that to come out and do an on-site estimate might take the better part of an hour, and the travel time could easily be over an hour. We did not find out if the quoted prices included the "emergency" Saturday supplement.

I think that free estimates are subject abuse if you have people who get 5 free estimates.

 

[Jeff H Young]

Reach 4 you mean contractor needs to add in his bid for the cost of coming out? I think thats pretty much so as a contractor you know your not getting every job, but dont expect to be just giving out prices all day long. a lot of owners dont care could care less of your "free estimate"
I think he was giving 50 pounds of salt and thats it
It didnt say he came to job or not . it very well could be a phone quote . seems he has some fat in that job for unforseen problems.

 

[Reach4]

It didnt say he came to job or not . it very well could be a phone quote . seems he has some fat in that job for unforseen problems.

I think OP was complaining that the quote was made without coming out to inspect.

 

[Lee_Leses]

Thanks everybody! I really appreciate your time to give me your opinions. Terry, I really wish that you were closer to PA, I would hire you to do a job in a heartbeat! In my opinion I can't help but feel that this quote is a little bit on the high side.

Thank you for letting me know that that's not a standard thing that a lot of plumbers do to install the vanity top, this is why I asked because I had no idea. That really surprised me.

The issue is with my back, which is really really bad. It's really hard for me to deal with these 40 pound bags of salt, but I may have to go to the store and actually separate them into 20 pound packages that I can carry. It's annoying that the stores from what I understand do not carry the smaller 25 pound bags around here, because everybody wants the 40 pound bag because it's cheaper! I also didn't realize that it would take up to 200 pounds of salt to fill the brine tank so that was very helpful too, so thank you.

Yes this was a phone estimate, they did not come out to look at anything. And what he saying with the toilet is there's one charge for the toilet install and another charge to install the new valve so the total charge that he's quoting to do the toilet job is basically 675+165 for the Viper - that seems like new van pricing to me Terry! I do have to say that from past experience, this company has done extra high-quality work so I will give them that.

I will follow up on this quote I may have to find a way to get the filter un-stuck and do the job myself. I think I'm gonna use a better strap wrench for that, I may just have to struggle my way through the salt as well.

By the way, does anyone prefer the salt PELLETS?

What I may end up doing is using them for the job that I really need done, the toilet. But I'm not clear also why if I asked for a specific toilet (which I didn't tell orginally say in this post) , why he quoted for the Gerber in white. I specifically asked for a quote for the UltraMax II in Sedonia beige, and I got a quote for the Gerber, I'm not sure why.

I also didn't know that most plumbers do you charge more for weekend work, so thank you for that.

Jeff, sadly I suspect you're right about the extra charge for older or dumb! I'm such a sap, I would hope there would be some fairness and honesty out there. But I've also heard the argument to stay in business my prices have to be similar to other market prices in the area. Not sure 100% I subscribe to that theory.

Terry, if you're system is keeping your profit margins reasonable, I hope you'll keep being the honest businessman you are, you do a lot of good with your interest and promotion of your craft!

 

[Jeff H Young]

Good luck with it. I was thinking the bags could be heavy Im getting older myself and my back acts up as well . It might be worth getting someone to deliver a few bags and you can put coffee cans into bucket or something. 200 bucks is a lot to pay.
There are I think good shops around I dont want to bash , but some do take advantage.

 

[Reach4]

The issue is with my back, which is really really bad. It's really hard for me to deal with these 40 pound bags of salt, but I may have to go to the store and actually separate them into 20 pound packages that I can carry. It's annoying that the stores from what I understand do not carry the smaller 25 pound bags around here, because everybody wants the 40 pound bag because it's cheaper! I also didn't realize that it would take up to 200 pounds of salt to fill the brine tank so that was very helpful too, so thank you.

They cost a little more per pound, but this may be available in your area.
My Sams carries https://www.samsclub.com/p/morton-system-saver-brine-block-25-lbs/151052?xid=plp_product_1_2
Those will work fine in a softener that refills the brine tank with water at the end of a regeneration. The cabinet softeners usually fill at the start of the regeneration instead.
There are probably people near you who will tote salt and pour it into your brine tank for a reasonable fee. Or at least stack them in the garage for you to break down at leisure.

 

[Jeff H Young]

They cost a little more per pound, but this may be available in your area.
My Sams carries https://www.samsclub.com/p/morton-system-saver-brine-block-25-lbs/151052?xid=plp_product_1_2
Those will work fine in a softener that refills the brine tank with water at the end of a regeneration. The cabinet softeners usually fill at the start of the regeneration instead.
There are probably people near you who will tote salt and pour it into your brine tank for a reasonable fee. Or at least stack them in the garage for you to break down at leisure.

Great Idea have someone stack in garage (other than his plumbing contractor at 198 dollars) But I can also see If a homeowner has a tradesman at his home He might ask that of him and not expect to pay out the gazoo . I know my dad or mom will have a pool guy or landscaper help with an unrelated task, and Tip generously. Theyll ask them to for do things like carry something heavy.
I do stuff like that for customers myself .

 

[Reach4]

I will follow up on this quote I may have to find a way to get the filter un-stuck and do the job myself. I think I'm gonna use a better strap wrench for that, I may just have to struggle my way through the salt as well.

I have never had good luck with strap wrenches.

Do get a wrench for the Big Blue housing! They are common and inexpensive. Pentair SW-4. (Pentair 144368) They say to tighten by hand and use the wrench to loosen. Obviously you need to release the pressure first. Also, and this is very important if you don't have a 3-valve bypass around the filter, have an O-ring in case the old one does not go back. Otherwise, your water system is out of commission.

Also lightly lube the 0-ring each time. I use Molykote 111. A 5.3 ounce tube is more than a lifetime supply. https://www.danco.com/product/12-oz-waterproof-grease/ is NSF 61 approved and meets or exceeds the requirements of FDA regulation 21. Often available locally. Small 1/2 ounce tube will last a long time for you too. Maybe years.

The o-ring is Pentek O-ring 151122. Equivalents:
Ace Hardware 4001756 or Ace 49561, American Plumber W 10-OR and 152032. 151122, UPC 33663005082, Culligan OR-100.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Pentek-SW-4-Filter-Wrench-PENTEK-SW-4/206017279
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Superb-...-Wrench-for-Big-Blue-Housing-SPBW-2/204597837 is unusually expensive.