Need help with Fleck 7000SXT programming

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by JimmyG, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Hi all,

    The tank was loaded with 2 bags of new Morton salt pellets at kick-off in July.
    I emptied out most of the pellets tonight from the plastic bin, I did not see any salt bridge.
    Not sure what size my brine flow control is. Where do I find that ?

    Are these Regen parameters correct?

    B1 = 10
    BD = 60 (manual says set to 30 for 48,000 system)
    B2 = 5
    RR = 10
    BF = 12

    Here are the details of my softener from the datasheet:

    Model: 70-SXT-2-48-M
    Specs: 10x54" mineral tank, 1.5 cu. ft. of high capacity resin, 18 x 33" brine tank, 2310 brine float, salt platform, 1 1/4" bypass valve, 1.25" connectors, 7000SXT Fleck Metered on demand valve, floor space 29 x 18 x 62"
    Capacity: 48,000 grains

    I am going to change C=40 (per mialynette2003 recommendation), BD to 30 (per manual) and H to 14 (per mialynette2003). It's due for a re-gen (day 12 of 14) so I'll kick one off tonight. I'll let all know the results.

    Thank you.
  2. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    Your changes may make a big difference, and you maybe don't need to read further. Remember you can trigger an immediate regen, and you don't have to wait until the 2AM start.

    But if you do want to watch, note how many inches of brine are in the tank. Also note the tank size.

    Ideally, you can watch during the brine draw, and see the level reduce. From the difference between the two levels, the tank size, and approximately how much solid salt (percent estimate), I am thinking we can estimate how much water is being added back in during the refill stage.

    There may be a label on the control near where the brine hose is that identifies which button for flow control is installed. If not, you could pull that fitting, and extract the button. That is the BLFC (brine level flow control) that you can see in the parts list of your service manual. Look at your control and see if you can see a label. That would be the simplest.
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2013
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Mustang, where in the manual does it say that BD should be 30 for a 48K? That is not correct.

    Also, your salt dose is too low and you really should not try to get 48K out of your volume of resin.
  4. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks Reach. I’ll see if I can get at the fitting to take a look at the part.

    Gary; my Bad. I read the Installation Manual incorrectly - it is not 1-for-1 with my head unit. Here is what the Install Manual recommends for my 48k system:

    B1 = 10
    BD = 60
    B2 = 5
    RR = 10
    BF = 30 (based on table in the manual, set to 30 for 48,000 system)

    Is this better ?

    Also, if my salt dose is too low (can’t get 48K out), what change should I make ?

    Thanks in advance.
  5. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    If I understand correctly, the water used to refill the tank brine is BF * (BLFC button value). Looking at the link in Gary's sig, for reasonable salt use, you/I/one might want 6 pounds of salt * 1.5 cubic feet of resin = 9 pounds giving a revised capacity of 30,000 grains for 1.5CF. At 3 pounds of salt per gallon, you would want 3 gallons. I am thinking that 65Mustang is very probably right (subject to verification but your observed low salt use seems to confirm) that you have a 0.25 GPM BLFC button. BF= 12 minutes delivers 3 gallons of water to give 9 pounds of salt into the brine draw. Good. So change to C=30, H=14. You will regen more often, but that will be fine.

    Also use Gary's calculator at http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php Note in the calculations that you can get more capacity by raising BF, which controls the salt used per regen. BF=30 will use a lot more salt: 22.5 pounds.

    When you test hardness at the kitchen, use the cold tap; the hot tap will give a delayed reading because of the hot water heater tank.
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2013
  6. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    My error. 1 CF of resin on an efficiency setting is 20K so a 1.5 CF should be set at 30 not 40 ( I blame fat fingers on that). My real concern is the BF (brine fill). Look where the brine line attaches to the valve. Should be a sticker that says the brine flow rate.
  7. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Ok, I think I may be grasping this. Based on feedback from all and the sizing chart link, my key settings should be this:

    C = 30
    H = 14
    SF= 20
    RC= 150
    DO= 7 (7 day re-gen based on new BF setting below)
    B1=10
    BD=60
    B2=5
    RR=10
    BF=20 (for 32000 grains capacity based on 60 gallons per day, 5 people, 14 grains hardness and 7 day re-gen with 24 hour reserve).
    FM=t1.5
  8. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    mialynette2003 - Can't seem to find any sticker indicating Brine Flow Rate.

    All - Any change suggestions to my latest settings ?

    Thanks again for the help.
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    I did not go through all of your settings, but I will comment on three: DO, BF and C... The change to DO=7 should not be needed, since the controller is watching how much water is being used. So you could still keep the DO=14, and that will probably not factor in unless you are away some.

    Regarding the BF=20, that would go with C=40 and alternatively BF=12 would go with C=30 based on http://www.qualitywaterassociates.com/sizing.php
  10. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    22.5 lbs regenerates 45K in a 1.5 cuft softener with regular mesh resin. That is 15lbs/cuft and 45,000/22.5 gets a salt efficiency of 2000 grains/lb. 30,000/9lbs (6lbs/cuft) is 3333 grains/lb.

    And don't forget a 24 hr reserve or a percentage although a percentage usually is more than a 24 hr reserve.
  11. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Ok, I ran a re-gen overnight with these settings:

    C = 30
    H = 14
    SF= 20
    RC= 150
    DO= 14 (left as 14 days per suggestion)
    B1=10
    BD=60
    B2=5
    RR=10
    BF=20 (for 32000 grains capacity based on 60 gallons per day, 5 people, 14 grains hardness and 7 day re-gen with 24 hour reserve).
    FM=t1.5

    Unfortunately, my volume remaining on the Display is not changing. Yesterday, the reading was 2581. This morning it was 2318. Usually after a re-gen, I would get a volume remaining reading around 6700. Also, no improvement in soft water feeling.

    Why didn’t the reading increase to some higher value ?
    What might be wrong ? :confused:

    Advice appreciated.
  12. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    The easy answer would be that it did not regenerate for some reason. Maybe you set the clock to wrong (AM/PM too)? Maybe you did not press the Extra Cycle button hard enough to make the service icon (faucet icon) flash? Maybe the system is defective. :-(

    I would invite everybody to use the toilet etc. Then I would trigger an immediate regen by holding in the Extra Cycle button for five seconds. Sit with the unit, keep a log, look in the brine container to see the brine go down. The first step is the backwash, and you should see/hear water draining. The next step is brine draw. See how far down the brine falls.

    If somebody needs to use water during regen, that is not a big deal-- it will be unsoftened water.
  13. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    Ontario California
    I will post a programming guide tomorrow if I have time.

    Check to see if the FM=t1.5 can be set to t1.2
  14. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Actually FM is set to t1.2. I did watch the system re-gen at the start. Saw the B1 cycle go 10 minutes with running water throughout, then saw the brine draw begin through the small external hose at the start of the 60 minute BD cycle. Where do I check to see the brine draw go down during this cycle ? In the small pipe in the Brine Tank?

    I just emptied out the Softener container, no salt bridge encountered. Left just 12 inches of buttons only (no powder).
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    With most of the salt out of the way, just look into the brine tank. If you can see down the small pipe with your bright LED flashlight, good. Otherwise, I would just scoop the remaining salt to one side so I could see near the bottom.

    So after your immediate cycle, did the number on the display go up as hoped? Also, how is the hardness for the cold water in the kitchen now?
  16. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Looking down the small pipe in the Brine Tank, I can see water near the bottom. The float is at the bottom. Also, the capacity on the display is at 2050 (never went up). Finally, the hardness at the kitchen cold outlet is still 12 (as it was before I started messing with settings).

    Me thinks this unit is not softening. Do I start trouble-shooting the re-gen period ? Any other checks I should make before I regen ?

    Thanks all for sticking with me on this.
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    I think that you are saying that the brine level is near the bottom, even after the whole operation is complete. We would have expected 4 gallons of water to be added during the 20 minute brine refill.

    I would add maybe 5 gallons of water manually (with a bucket). Let it sit for a day to dissolve salt. Put the system through an immediate cycle as you watch again. Confirm that the brine get drawn out. Confirm the brine does not refill. Test your water at the kitchen. With the results, I think somebody will probably be able to suggest how to proceed.
  18. mialynette2003

    mialynette2003 Member

    Messages:
    738
    Location:
    Ocala, Florida
    After pouring in the water, you can start a regen in 2 hours. Did the unit come with a salt grid? If so, does the water come above it? Did you add water to the brine tank when you installed it before adding salt?
  19. 65Mustang

    65Mustang New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    New York
    Last night, I removed some salt pellets and checked the water level in the brine tank. It was just below the plastic “deckâ€. I added 1 gallon of water so that the water level was now above the deck. I added more salt to cover the water and let it sit the night.

    This morning I removed a layer of salt so that I could see the water level. Still about one inch above the deck. Re-gen settings confirmed to be:

    B1=10
    BD=60
    B2=5
    RR=10
    BF=20
    Other settings:
    C=40
    H=14

    Started a re-gen cycle. B1 cycle completed in 10 minutes with water flow observed at the exhaust. The BD cycle started, I observed flow in the brine hose start. Water solution in the brine tank disappeared below the deck in a few minutes. 13 minutes into the cycle, the brine in the brine hose stopped flowing. I let the BD cycle complete its 60 minutes step but no further flow occurred in the brine hose. B2 Step completed in 5 minutes, as did the RR cycle in 10 minutes. Observed flow out the exhaust for both. The BF cycle started and observed water flow down the brine flow into the brine tank. After the BF cycle completed in 20 minutes , the water level in the Brine tank barely reached the deck.

    The capacity reading before I started the re-gen was 1909. After the re-gen, I show 2326. So, the extra gallon of water helped to increase the capacity.

    Did a Hach water check at the faucet, still reading hardness at 12. Not sure why I’m not getting a lower number.

    Any suggestions on my next change ?

    Thanks again ……. 65Mustang
  20. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,386
    Location:
    IL
    I think your experiments have narrowed the problem.It seems clear that the problem is with the brine refill. You expect 4 gallons, and you did not get even a gallon. I hope more experienced folks will be suggesting how to remove a clog in that path. With a symptom like that, somebody could point out a probable fix, or at least a small list. Brine is being drawn. It is not refilling.

    You could manually step right to the refill phase if you like, but I think the symptom has been defined pretty well. Maybe manually doing the refill phase a few times could tell if there was just a way-low brine fill or no fill at all.

    But regarding the test with adding your own water, I would go ahead and give that 4 or even 5 gallons to get things softened, after you let that sit long enough to salt, and trigger another early regeneration. You could trigger that to occur during the night. I predict your brine level will then be back low in the morning.

    But at least you will have soft water in the morning. Remember to run that tap long enough to get water through the softener.

    One more thing: the softener logic acted as if there had been 4 gallons of brine used, rather than 1, so its capacity remaining will be significantly optimistic.

    I am attaching a sticker identifying the BLFC (brine level fill control) button rating on a 5600 controller. This one says
    huge_5600BLFC.jpg I was wondering if you might have missed a similar label on your 7000 near where the brine tube attaches to your controller. I know you looked before, but maybe your eyes were on the lookout for a white label?
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2013
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