Is there a class action lawsuit against Kitec piping?

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by ultimachi, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. Downhome

    Downhome New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    My original question

    So here is my question - can anyone answer this for me?

    Most of the tubes are run through our attic and dropped through the walls to the bathrooms and kitchen. If only Kitec fittings can be used with Kitec tubing and Aquapex fittings with Aquapex tubing, why can't someone just go into the attic and look at the type of tubing used to determine what type of fitting we have??? Why does there have to be any cutting through the drywall at all???
    I appreciate any insight the pros on this site can give.
    01-19-2007 07:17 AM
     
  2. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer...healey-feeley.....
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    the future nightmares we all face

    That is why I still love copper .


    I do use the WIRSBO pex only..with the heavy duty expansion rings...

    but now they are even finding ways to mess up that system
    with shitty wimpy crimp rings instead of the expansion couplings....


    everyone is trying to make things easier and cheaper to use
    without too much concern what might hapen down the road
    and no one is really watching these pipe compnaies too closely



    I might be wrong,
    but I still feel that in about another 10 years from now


    THEIR IS GOING TO BE BLOODY HELL TO PAY for everyone

    involved in some of these low end pexes...........

    just have an decent 2 millioin dollar umbrella policy on your company

    so when you get named along with the builders
    and the bankrupt pex companies in all the many lawsuits,

    at least your defence will be for free


    and I am trying to stick to only one brand that I feel is best
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2007
  3. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    downhome... looking at the car/PU/SUV doesn't tell you what engine is in it and looking at your tubing isn't going to tell you the type or brand of fittings used.
     
  4. f.2

    f.2 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2007
    Location:
    NV
    Las Vegas Review Journal article

    Homeowners sue installers, who blame manufacturer for faulty fixtures

     
  5. Dunbar Plumbing

    Dunbar Plumbing Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Occupation:
    Service Plumber, Outdoor Temperature Relief Owner
    Location:
    Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
    Steve Hawley, owner of Classic Plumbing, said the Kitec problem cost him his business and he's pursuing legal action against IPEX, the Canadian-based manufacturer of Kitec.
    "I'm basically out of business," he said. "I have no employees. I'm the only employee now just to handle the lawsuit. Here I had one of the largest residential plumbing companies in the valley for 25 years and had to shut it down."
    Hawley said he put Kitec fittings in about 5,000 homes in the valley, many of them for Richmond American. When the fittings started having problems, he called Kitec and company officials said it was "no big deal." They paid for product and labor to repair a few homes and then "pulled up stakes" in Colorado and moved to Canada, he said.


    wow,

    a failed brass connection, fancy that.[​IMG]


    "Oh but it's fast and easy, stuff is going to take over the world because Europe been using it for years without failure"




    About 35,000 to 50,000 homes in the Las Vegas Valley have Kitec brass fixtures. A class action lawsuit claims the fixtures are faulty.





    Thanks for the latest documented evidence.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2016
  6. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer...healey-feeley.....
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    would that not make you want to hurl

    Have a good business, do over 5,000 homes

    be rolling in good money and service work....

    and have it all taken away from you, or you have to

    go bankrupt --restart your bsiness under another name.
    and go underground just to save your assets.....


    I wonder how it all shakes out with his insurance????

    I would think it would be their problem to deal with....not his.

    No Umbreall Policy???

    wouldent it be their problem to insure this plumber????


    I would like to hear more about this mess....


    sounds like the dip tube fiasco of the mid 90s to me...
     
  7. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Had he used plastic fittings, he wouldn't have the problem...:D
     
  8. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    Wait a minute....

    "Extensive corrosion and crystallization caused by chemical reaction occurs where Kitec is coupled with polyurethene-based tubing, resulting in plumbing problems such as leaks, reduced water flow and breaks, the lawsuit alleges."

    Huh? Polyurethene-based tubing... everbody know you can't mix polyethylene and polyurethene products.

    Oh and where in this picture is the polyurethene.



    Rancher
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2016
  9. serge

    serge New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Occupation:
    lots of work
    Location:
    Seattle
    Terrible Pex-sky stories....

    Living in the Pacific NW, I had heard about the supposed PEX issue with the Blueberry development. However, even in the article, they admit that the systems were basically hickedly-piggeldy mix of different pipes connections, water heaters etc.

    In Vancouver BC, thousands of condos there have PEX pipe. I've heard about the leaky condo issue there, but that was due to siding (DryVit) issues and not PEX. Many of those condos have been around for >10-15 years and not one peep about the PEX.

    And I'm not really sure what the issue is in the Las Vegas houses is, but from reading the posts (and especially Gary's posts) it seems to be the fittings and using the PEX-al-PEX for potable water.

    It'll be interesting to see how this all turns out, especially since I have PEX in some areas in my house. Luckily, most of it is accessible....
     
  10. serge

    serge New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2006
    Occupation:
    lots of work
    Location:
    Seattle
    From the homeowner web site....12-2006

    "Due to the unique quality of water in the area, chemical reactions may occur that cause these brass fittings to clog over time. In recent months, some homeowners in Sun City Anthem have reported decreased water flow in their homes, believed to have resulted from corrosion of Kitec brass fittings. To date, corrosion of Kitec fittings has not been found to have caused leaks or any problems other than reduced water flow in any homes in Sun City Anthem."
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2016
  11. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    The other day when Rancher posted the picture, I was going to say that I suspect the water quality may be responsible rather than the fittings. I suspected the water when I first saw the pictures on the class action lawsuit web site. That is because of what I see inside the fittings and tubing. It's just too much 'corrosion' (actually material) to come from the aluminium/brass contact corrosion. Someone should do an analysis on it, possibly it's caused by high velocity and erosion corrosion that caused the leaking fittings.

    Another thing I thought about... I wonder how tight the compression nuts were tightened, in those instances where the fittings leaked/broke, and if they weren't overtightened (to prevent leaks) and if they weren't stressed. I also wonder if that were done if it might cause the aluminum to deform enough to touch the brass and cause corrosion. Since I don't know the construction of the fittings or how they go together, my theory may not be possible.

    And isn't it strange that no leaks are present in the case discussed in the linked web site, just loss of pressure/low flow complaints?
     
  12. Phil H2

    Phil H2 New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Location:
    Tujunga, CA
    My guess is the fittings are made from poor quality free-machining brass that is rich in zinc, coupled with a thin spot located in a turbulent area. The fitting was thus subject to rapid dezincification and being in contact with the copper water pipe doesn't help.

    The aluminum is not in contact with water, so any contact between the Aluminum and brass wouldn't have an electrolyte to accelerate the corrosion.
     
  13. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2004
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Wherever I park the motorhome.
    Then it must be a bad batch of fittings, all used in only one location in NV, which sounds highly unlikely to me but it's possible.
     
  14. mrsocks

    mrsocks New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2007
    I am hearing that this whole situation is because of the extremely hard water in that area and other components are failing as well: Taco Pumps, fixtures, etc.. anything with brass in them.

    Also supposedly Zurn was one of the pipe suppliers and they are running into the same lawsuits.

    Has anyone gotten any updated info or more reports of this happening to anywhere outside of this NV area?

    Thanks.
     
  15. Son of Thunder

    Son of Thunder New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2007
    Eeek! Home seller with Kitec

    My home's on the market here in the Vegas Valley, and all indications are that we have Kitec plumbing. Our house was built 4 years ago. Our builder is one of those listed in the class action lawsuit cited in this thread. I've seen comments from those who believe this leakage/blockage problem may be due to the extremely hard water here in Southern Nevada.

    Is there any information on whether this corrosion is mitigated or eliminated by softened water? Any opinions here?

    Our water has been softened from the day we bought the house new from the builder. There are just a couple of lines (cold line to kitchen sink, fridge, and outdoors) where the water isn't softened.

    We found out about this issue earlier this week, and have found this thread very informative. Thanks in advance for any comments.
     
  16. suecpdx

    suecpdx New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2007
    KITEC Class Action

    YES!
    There is a very large class action lawsuit occurring in Las Vegas, NV right now. Any repairs to plumbing and any houses built in 2002-2003 are involved in this lawsuit. The pipes that were installed during a repair or during initial construction are faulty. Customers have a choice: pay $$$$ to have the plumbing repaired now before pipes break and cause damage or wait until the courts decide when and how much you will receive to make repairs. Not a good situation!
     
  17. GeorgeA@Repipenow.com

    GeorgeA@Repipenow.com New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Law suit against Kitec

    Okay, here is the straight dope. I am a plumbing contractor in the Southern California area and have been in the Plumbing industry of over 40 - years. The name of my company is MasterServ and my website is www.repipenow.com. We specialize in copper repiping in Southern California. Over the last several years there has been a problem with Kitec piping in the Las Vegas area. What has occured is that the water conditions in the area react adversly with the type of brass fittings that were used in the construction of appoximately 50,000 - homes in the area. What has been found out is that if the brass has too high of a percentage of zinc in it, it starts to decompose and wear out; causing leaks. The problem that most homeowners are experiencing is that the plumbing contractors in the area are not familar with the repiping industry and are just now coming up to speed as to how to handle this problem. I have seen some of the postings in this forum and most people are just not familar with this type of industry as it is a specialty that started in Southern California and does not ocurr much in other parts of the country. The only solution is to replace the Kitec with PEX or Copper, there is no other solution as the Kitec will just continue to fail. If anyone wants more information, please contract me personally at my office at (800) 806-7374 or (818) 408-4100.

    Sincerely,
    George Anderson
    President
    MasterServ, Inc.
     
  18. Rancher

    Rancher Guest

    What's the difference between Kitec and PEX?

    Rancher
     
  19. Master Plumber Mark

    Master Plumber Mark Master Plumber

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Occupation:
    Sensitivity trainer...healey-feeley.....
    Location:
    indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
    Zurn --pex Lawsuit

    If it was not already known,
    or If I have already posted this... sorry

    the Zurn brand of PEX
    now has a class action lawsuit against it......

    something to do with the crimp fittings comming agapt....

    Zurn is sold at LOWES, and some supply houses....and I guess it is jsut not holding up well


    the only type of pex that I trust is WIRSBO with the
    plastic expansion clamp rings..... it appers to be about
    the absolute best on the market.


    Rancher.....Ki-tech is considered pex, but it has an allinimum inner core....
    between an outer and innner pex cover.... I have used a little of it,
    and it bends something like soft copper would and stays as you bend it...

    I dont like it...at all..


    The Wirsbo and other pexes are some sort of cross linked polymer
    just solid plastic pipe....

    goto thier web site if you want the chemical breakdown
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2007
  20. GrumpyPlumber

    GrumpyPlumber Licensed Grump

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2007
    Occupation:
    Plumber, self employed
    Location:
    Licensed Grump

    I've used it extensively on baseboard heat working for other shops, I agree.
    Given a choice of nothing or PEX, I'd take Wirsbo.
     
Similar Threads: class action
Forum Title Date
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Plumb-PEX brass insert fitting recall and class action settlement Apr 5, 2012
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice On the class action lawsuit front ( plumbing related) Clorox, Lowes Sep 19, 2010
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Class Action Lawsuit Against Kitec Jan 4, 2008
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice Zurn class action law suit. My sorry tale. Dec 11, 2007
Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice New class action lawsuit re: Kitec Pipe System Dec 6, 2007

Share This Page