Global Warming, now Water Shortage

Discussion in 'Plumbing Forum, Professional & DIY Advice' started by Dunbar Plumbing, Oct 27, 2007.

  1. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Rugged,

    I got a solution for the kidney stone and saving water at the same time!
    http://www.gls-lithotripsy.com/Howdoes.html

    I already had this done and the water they use is minimal as it works with shockwaves. Good luck!
  2. tonykarns

    tonykarns In the Trades

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    82
    Location:
    wisconsin
    Big news story

    People in Atlanta can no longer get a baptism due to the water shortage!
  3. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    5,980
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    Ohio
    In the town I grew up in back in MA they no longer allow lawn watering systems to be installed at all.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2008
  4. got_nailed

    got_nailed DIY Senior Member

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    277
    I don’t want to say that were not killing he earth and we need to do something about it now but I will say that not all of your water issues and weather issues are based off of global warming.

    The axis of the earth is not constant. The South Pole is more or less the pivot that we spin off of. The North Pole changes; this is because the North Pole is not “fixed†like the South Pole. Every year the top of the earth spins slightly more off center. This is why the ice caps are melting faster and the seasons are changing. The north pole is getting closer to the sun.

    I know this goes back to what they want us to believe –vs- truth.
    Did god make earth and everything on it or was it the evolution of man kind?
    Global warming or the natural cycle of the earth?
    Dose the government let us know everything or are there still a lot of top secret files?
    Did they tell us everything about what is happening over seas or what they think we could handle with out us going into a wide spread panic?


    Yes the earth is a closed system then why don’t we hear about the South Pole melting? In fact the ice in the South Pole is growing. If it was all part of global warming then you would think it would be melting to.

    Look at the pic in red on the right side of the link.
    http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/lect/time/precession.html
  5. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    Got Nailed,

    I noticed the time you posted that, how you can be so awake and thinking in the morning?! I am sipping coffee and my eyes are still crossed! :D You are on the ball.
  6. got_nailed

    got_nailed DIY Senior Member

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    277
    I have a real third shift job. Until I can get my health insurance figured out then I will still have to work for someone.

    I need the coffee now and it’s only 2:50 PM.

    Hmm if I made coffee and the power I used to type this out I bet I shortened the life of the ice cap by what 1 year (lmfao)?
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2007
  7. Bosun

    Bosun New Member

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    89
    Location:
    Minneapolis
    Warming

    While there are many natural causes of warming, I think it is foolhardy to think that human progress has nothing to do with it.
  8. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

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    SW Florida

    Foolhardy is a word without enough emphasis. Those that state that 6 Billion people on this planet with the supporting industries have no effect on global warming are quite arrogant.
  9. BrooklynJon

    BrooklynJon New Member

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    27
    Global Warming is Religion, not Science

    I respectfully disagree. There is simply no compelling evidence that actions by humans are causing global warming. Frankly, the evidence for global warming is fairly sketchy, but the evidence linking human activity to it is absent.
    Is the polar ice cap melting? You bet. But this is part of a long term trend that's been occurring over the past 10,000 years, with a little break most recently during the "little ice age" in the late 18th and early 19th centuries.
    Are temperature measurements increasing? It's hard to know with certainty. Most temperature measuring stations that have been around for a long time are located in areas which have been exposed to increasing urbanity, i.e. they used to be far outside the city, but the city - with its heat island effect - has been encroaching on them. Many temperature sensors are in places that render them completely unreliable, e.g. the thermometer positioned directly over the steam pipe at Rochester, NY's airport.
    The evidence linking CO2 and temperature is retrospective, which can demonstrate correlation, but NOT CAUSALITY. Does higher CO2 cause higher temperatures? Does higher temperatures cause higher CO2? You can't know based on the data, but you can know if you take a bottle of soda out of the fridge and put it in the sun. Raising the temperature of a liquid (soda, the oceans) causes CO2 to be less soluble, and forces it out of solution (the air above the soda, the atmosphere). So it's no surprise that high atmospheric CO2 and high temperatures go together.
    Finally, those data indicating that the 1990s were the hottest decade since we've been collecting data? They were erroneous. The hottest decade was the 1930s, when population was lower, and industrial output was waaay lower (remember the depression?).

    So is it arrogant to take highly questionable data, misinterpret them, concoct an unlikely hypothesis, and then insist on policy changes while the hypothesis is far from proven - policy changes which will result in severe economic dislocations? Or is it arrogant to question whether we know enough to forge ahead with the gutting of the economy?
  10. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

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    Location:
    SW Florida
    I never proposed any solution. Let me guess, you're a regular Faux news watcher? It seems the hard-core conservatives are steadfastly against admitting this situation. Before you call me a Lib, I am a republican, just an open minded one.

    The Earth does indeed go through cycles of warming and cooling, just not warming at the speed it is doing now.

    The majority of respected scientist have agreed that humans are having an impact on our environment. I'm not going to get in a pissing match with anyone about it, if someone wants to really believe that we aren't having a negative impact then I can't help them and they aren't going to part of any solution because for some reason they have their heads stuck in the sand.
  11. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    15,110
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    BrooklynJon,
    If you are saying that the places they record temperatures don't count, because they have been urbanized, then isn't that the whole point?

    It's getting harder to see stars at night, for all the lights from cities.
    Already, the things I grew up with over 50 years ago, I can't share with my grandkids.


    http://www.greatglobalwarmingswindle.co.uk/
    I just watched this film, Maybe my first statement above is wrong.
    After watching the film at the link above, I'm sure I was wrong.
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2007
  12. BrooklynJon

    BrooklynJon New Member

    Messages:
    27
    Florida Orange,

    For the record, I'm a Prius-driving Democrat who lives in a heavily insulated house three miles from work. I walk the environmental walk, and talk the environmental talk. However, there's a lot more to being an environmentalist than buying into the whole anthropogenic global warming movement. In fact, the hoopla surrounding global warming is causing virtually every other environmental concern to be ignored. If you don't believe me, check out what's happening to the tropical rainforest so that massive sugar cane plantations can be built in the bizarre belief that burning one fuel is substantively different than burning another. We will stop recycling our corn stalks into topsoil in this country so that we can turn them into ethanol; in a hundred years, we'll have a permanent dust bowl.

    As a published scientist myself, I know how easy it is to manipulate studies, and how biased researchers get when you dangle money at them. Right now, climate researchers who toe the party line about global warming can get grants, and those who don't don't. What's worse, they get derided as "shills for industry", which is tantamount to permanent blacklisting for academic scientists. And last I checked, scientific truth was not based on how many people vote for one theory over another. I can bore you with a long recitation of how many hypotheses had widespread support and turned out wrong, but I choose not to for now.


    Terry,

    Yes and no. If I put a thermometer in Nassau County, just outside New York Ciy, in 1930, it will give a rural reading. If I check it again in 2000, it now gives me an urban reading, which is roughly five degrees more than the same location would be if it were rural. Nassau County is hardly representative of the Earth's surface. Of course, most of the Earth is covered by water, and the portion that is land is mostly minimally developed. But the Nassau Counties of the country are disparately overrepresented in the temperature data because people in 1930 wanted to put their station outside the city, but not so far outside that they couldn't get to it easily. So they put the stations in the suburbs.

    It is an extrapolation to assume that a number of local readings constitute a "global" phenomenon. The readings have to take place that are representative of the globe, and there has been no attempt made to do this.


    Finally, the statement that the rate of rise in the temperature is unusual is just not correct. We are comparing it to data from ice cores that compress long periods of time together, resulting in averages that change slowly. But we are measuring temperature much more frequently now. When you increase the frequency of your sampling, you are necessarily going to see more variation (so-called "noise"). This does not mean that the rate of change has increased. It means that you are now seeing the trees rather than the forest you were looking at before.
  13. FloridaOrange

    FloridaOrange Plumbing Designer

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    1,317
    Location:
    SW Florida

    That says alot to me. I work with and for engineers, I'm fully aware of how numbers can be manipulated. I was leaning this way looonnnggg before the scientific consensus was that way. How could you not believe that 6.6B people, most part of industrial nations is not effecting the planet? At the rate things are going (and most numbers I look at are accelerating) we're gonna be in big trouble. Deserts are expanding, subtropical areas are slowly becoming tropical and so forth.

    I am fully aware of how much woodland and tropical forest we're losing. It's all tied together.....

    9.5M hectares this year so far
    5.2M land loss through soil erosion this year
    18.5B metric tones of carbon dioxide emissions this year
    12.3M acres of new desert this year
  14. tonykarns

    tonykarns In the Trades

    Messages:
    82
    Location:
    wisconsin
    How about this?

    What about satellite temperature measurements?

    Evidence from satellite and weather balloon soundings suggests that the atmosphere has warmed considerably less than greenhouse theory suggests. These measurements, which cover the whole atmosphere and show only a very slight warming, show a disparity with the surface temperature measurements, which cover only a small fraction of the Earth but show sustained warming.

    What don’t scientists know yet?

    Scientists do not agree on whether: 1) we know enough to ascribe past temperature changes to carbon dioxide levels; 2) we have enough data to confidently predict future temperature levels; and 3) at what level temperature change might be more damaging than beneficial to life on Earth.

    taken from globalwarming.org
  15. population explosion

    you can all beleive what ever you want to....
    we need to collect more data......whatever....

    at this point it really dont matter....


    the big oil companies and other pollutors all want more informaiton..... to stall and stall makeing the changes that are already too late........

    we are slaves to oil and our cars... and their is absolutely nothing that can be done about it .....

    the whole populatioin is not willlingly going to bo back to the horse and buggy... and cannot......

    their are simply too many people on the planet wanting the same oil driven lifestyle

    so you might say that all of humanity is on a huge roller coaster ride....
    and like on every ride you have ever been on you can
    feel the rollercoaster comming to the top of the first
    great drop into the abiss....................yeeeeeee...haaaaaaaa!!!!!!

    In my opinion ......its just a matter of how much time before things really become exciteing........


    So , just try to be good, honest and decent to each other and

    you should try to live like it could be your last day on earth

    anyway....because it always could be.


    or you can collect some more data on this issue before you decide
    to embrace this course of action I just proposed....
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2007
  16. theelviscerator

    theelviscerator New Member

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    Location:
    Elkhart, IN
    America and Europe can all put their cars on blocks, but if China and India don't play by the exact same rules, well you get the picture.

    two skinny kids on a seesaw do not balance out two fat ladies.
  17. Cookie

    Cookie .

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    All too true Mark. Don't let one day go by without making it better than the day before for someone.
  18. Cass

    Cass Plumber

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    5,980
    Location:
    Ohio

    Just a smile and holding a door open for someone goes a long way.
  19. Mikey

    Mikey Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek

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    Location:
    Central Florida
    Somehow, today's Dilbert seems relevant:

    Bitter scientests-dilbert2002444471031.gif
  20. I got so overwhelmed by this thread

    that I accidentally let my turbo diesel run for 9 hours in the driveway. :eek:


    Make room for my carbon footprint! Don't forget that garbage I burned


    tonight either! fire3.gif Got a permit for that? No


    Thanks for the info Cookie; I was aware of that treatment but 4 gallons of water

    passing through my kidneys fixed me right up. Kind of a "non-insurance" treatment

    if ya know whadda mean.
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