Educating The Budget Client on Tile shower pricing

Discussion in 'Shower & Bathtub Forum & Blog' started by RedShoecounterbalance, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Montreal

    Hey John , since the taxes are not yours , the discounted price is

    965.25$ + 190.47$ = 1,155.72$ .

    I also did see any mention of the preslope , are you including it free of charge ? Just a thought .:)
  2. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Montreal
    I did mentioned it once ........the client told me later that I don't fit in his schedule . I told him the industry standards are a minimum of 14 days to properly complete the shower -- with all the goodies -- ,

    Including the 72 hours -- 3 days -- water testing ( flooding the waterproofed pan )

    you know ready to shower . He told me it takes too long .

    Even after knowing , we elect to look away if it accommodates us . Did I mention his shower was leaking -- badly -- from the linear drain connection ?
  3. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I also am not seeing the 72 hr flood test charge??? !!!
  4. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

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    415
    Location:
    Minnesota
    It costs triple to do it all over again .

    Roberto , I run into people telling me their other quote is for 3 -4 day completion. All the time. I no longer spend the time to explain why its not advisable and in many cases not possible!

    What is with the hurry these days? Are you going to repair this leaker?
  5. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Montreal
    I know , it is crazy -- 3 to 4 days completion -- . Probably will include all the sub standards .

    I too coming to the same conclusion , too slowly I guess .

    I didn't loose faith , yet .


    Having '' everything '' right at our finger tips -- really believing it -- , I could say that slowing down is probably a good thing .



    Nothing to do with showers construction , but speed has also negative effects in other areas .

    It's all about ethics . :)
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2014
  6. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Price, speed, quality.

    Pick any 2. You cant have all 3
  7. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    There is a pre-slope and liner there now. It will need a little tweaking since the builder wants to keep this existing work. I'm going to include a little flat trowel of Ardex 8+9 to fix the shallow spot I assume is there.

    The flood test has all ready pasted inspection and so has the tub's overflow and drain test.

    I have not heard back yet if the client accepted my counter offer...

    Now sure how long the flood test was on for. When I went by it had a nice thick dust layer over it. Looked like it had been there a good two days. I think this shower was flooded out for 2-4 days. What I need to check if I get the job is how well it drains.
  8. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Montreal


    This is a different ball game , John .
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,419
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC

    I don't understand? What?
  10. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Montreal

    The price you are asking for something that passed inspection , John .

    It is a different ball game to get accepted now vs. doing it from a starting point .
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
  11. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,419
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Builder just emailed back.

    They are going with the total job of $4,000.00 - No Light Feature.

    So in the end I discounted my price by almost 10%.....

    It's going to be a kick ass project and the builder is a top shelf guy. Did loads of research prior to the build so he could have all the options. Nice to walk into a job and see a 3" drop in the shower area!
  12. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,419
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    Prepping the barrier free shower in advance....

    [​IMG]
  13. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
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    Location:
    New England
    There's a big difference between what a professional must charge (or should, if he's going to do a good job) to complete a shower verses what a DIY'er would spend. First, while there are some DIY'ers that can and will opt for improvements above the basic shower (niche, lighting, nice custom glass work, multiple shower heads or body sprays, bench, etc.), the vast majority of homes wishing to improve their builder class fiberglass enclosure, may not want or be willing to spend the money to build a complex, highly customized shower. While people are staying in their homes maybe longer than some periods in the past, just how much money do you really want to pump into a tract house that may get sold next year? And, the homeowner doesn't have to pay for liability insurance, unemployment insurance, retirement funding, maybe an accountant, a truck, quality tools he can count on for repeated, heavy use, etc., just to keep a business running. A professional has a huge investment in tools and infrastructure to make his job go faster and easier - the right tool for the job can produce a better job, or at least accomplish it faster - a
    requirement for a successful business.

    If the exercise is to demonstrate what a pro must charge to build a shower, this is enlightening, but, since this is a DIY'er forum, it goes to show why a DIY'er, just having to buy materials (he may or may not have some of the tools required) CAN save a bunch of money building his own shower. If he wishes to include some or all of the special features, it will certainly take him MUCH longer than a pro who has done it before and does not have the (sometimes steep) learning curve to overcome, and the possibility he has to do it over again.

    A pro may end up paying less for his materials since he has an established business, buys in bulk, and may use that as part of his profit margin when providing things to the customer...all viable and justified...it costs him time to procure them, possibly warehouse some of it to get that bulk price. Need a small section of a profile...the pro gets to charge full price for the piece, then may be able to do it a couple more times with the next customer. Same with the rest of the roll of the liner or waterproofing. A DIY'er would buy the piece, and have 3/4 of it sitting around in the garage for 20-years before it gets thrown away.

    There are certainly people who should never pick up a screwdriver, or can't replace a light bulb, but there are a lot of talented people who can achieve and aspire to build nice things, and can complete them. The people at www.johnbridge.com understand that, and have set themselves up to aid people that are in that category. That isn't always the case here.

    So, the cost to build a typical shower by a DIY'er verses that same shower done by a pro will almost always skew the bottom line for total outlay to achieve the end result. A DIY'er will not have the pro to go back to to fix a problem down the road, and that can be priceless. But, a DIY'er that has decent skills can produce a reliable, long-lasting, good-looking shower, and can do it for less outlay than what would be charged by a pro.

    Sometimes, the methods and materials chosen for a big remodeling project where there will be lots of other tradesmen on the jobsite may not lend themselves to certain products that may work just as well in a DIY'er environment. What may be deemed 'overkill' in a DIY'er environment may end up being good insurance in a pro install when he cannot be present during the entire build. Each situation is different.
  14. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Jim , nice link...!! You just said a bunch of ljibberish in long form and added a link.......you arent qualified to talk contractor pricing as you dont actually work in this field???? Who said anything about a tract house?

    It is a very valid point here, to explain why a quality detailed shower costs what it does ....DIY forum is just the place. People come to these forums daily to ask what it should cost..

    i.e " what should my plumber charge to sweat this moen valve"

    Whats a fair shower pan price? Etc.

    You sir are A peddler of a texas webiste that doubles as a undercover participant at mapei classes to learn your knowledge. Not skill but skewed knowledge.

    - redshoe
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2014
  15. jadnashua

    jadnashua Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx

    Messages:
    22,143
    Location:
    New England
    There's a big difference between a high-end, custom shower and what most people want and can afford. Many DIY'ers are fully capable of producing a reliable, good-looking basic tiled shower...and, at a lower price point than paying someone to do it.
  16. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    415
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Ok thx Jim for this input....

    Why dont you price out a diy shower and actually add something to this conversation?

    Afterwards we can discuss your arrival at such number $
  17. eurob

    eurob master tile and stone installer

    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Montreal

    4 constants were and are still present , according to one DIyer -- Jim --


    1) Terry Love site is only for DIYer.

    Answer : Half , if not more , of the answers -- posts -- are from professionals -- experts -- . Stop using it , if you don't like the answers.

    2) Promoting only Schluter products

    Answer : Limiting the options for DIYer isn't the only option .

    3) Sending members to only the other site -- JBF --

    I am pretty sure not seeing it , especially from a DIYer's regular intent -- , there . Every time is done , you not only discredit -- intentionally -- the pros in here , but discredit the essence of this website .

    4) DIYers can accomplish what a Pro does

    Besides constructions of words and phrases , there is no indication of real experience and construction of any shower , bathroom , kitchen of any kind . Not a finished product , during construction or etc. was or is used in any of answers -- Jim's --.

    Just close the internet and do a bathroom or a shower from scratch ......then you will understand what you need to know , before laying one tile or say that many can do it . Overkill with using top quality materials .....you got to be kidding , just another sub standard advice .

    Funny to see the price as a main constant in decisions of according a contract . Equally funny to see best techniques or products should be used -- constant advice -- , when construction or renovation items are failing .
  18. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Eat kitty

    Messages:
    293
    Location:
    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    What does a budget client want? A 3'x3' stall, or tub to shower conversion? I cant say I've seen many threads on budget builds. Reputation is what justifies the premium price.

    Glad to see you have a project you're enthusiastic about, John.

    I like watching how you, and Roberto work.
  19. DougB

    DougB Member

    IMO, a bathroom is the most complex DIY homeowner project there is. While I agree it's possible to save money (on the labor), if it's an entire bathroom, I'd say you are looking at 2 months minimum - probably 4 - 6 (considering you have a 40 hr/wk job). I'm counting basic redesign issues, permits, demo, and then the rebuild. I would venture that a DIY'er that's going to attempt a bathroom remodel has experience in remodeling other areas of his home.

    I also think most DIY people want to improve (bring up to date with design), and are willing to spend money for fixtures, lighting, nitches, floor warming, etc.

    My way of looking at it (for our own bathroom): House was built in 1950, original bathroom, shower wall began to leak. So we need to replace. Times have changed since 1950. Also the bathroom had design problems (toilet like 2" from outer wall - why?) So... wife and I worked on a design, moved tub, sink, removed section of toilet waste pipe to correct distance from wall. It has taken me almost a full year (we have another 1 1/2 baths). I have about $13K in the bathroom. I figure it would have cost me $30k - $35k to have someone do this.
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

    Messages:
    4,419
    Location:
    North Vancouver, BC
    What a joke you are Jim. I do not know why Terry lets you continue with your promotions. The folks on John Bridge are washed up wanna bee's. Arm chair builders. Retired men who never really built anything. The guys there who actually build for a living don't answer the DIY questions anyway they leave that to the rewtired men like you Jim.
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