Educating The Budget Client on Tile shower pricing

Discussion in 'Shower & bathtub Forum & Blog' started by RedShoecounterbalance, Apr 27, 2014.

  1. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Eat kitty

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    254
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    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    You were writing/posting the other one while I was writing/posting here. LOL
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    qutoe; Who's George?

    Does he tile? LOL

    George does EVERYTHING, and he says he is an expert at all of them, and in addition, he works cheap.
  3. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    quote; Sometimes the top cap is a little large for a drain.

    If we are referring to the same drain, the "top cap" is ALWAYS too large for the drain, as it is supposed to be.
  4. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

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    299
    Location:
    Minnesota

    HJ And Vegas you are confusing me for one! wrong thread or am I lost?!!! Were talkin about Tile Shower Pricing!!!

    Vegas, In your region I cant imagine the slab is that cold VEGAS!? where are you?? comparatively to arctic cold climates. Its very common to have "Minor" slab cracks often times they will arise within days/weeks of initial cure TIME and im assuming you are not talking about a new or GREEN pour?. If Its just That and the slab is dry throughout the year and youve had no seepage, worsening of crack over time, I would feel safe, patching/skimming the crack (AGAIN Ive seen no pictures and im not at your property looking at your slab).

    Installing heat (either cable and tap cons or A mat system like Laticretes new heating mat) with the mat you could use an array of laticrete thinsets to bed it and then skim over it and top it with strata mat. first verify the slab is not sealed and porous and accepting of water, you may also hit it with a diamond cup wheel to scarify it and help your mechanical bond.......... clean it, clean it, and clean it once more Before moving fwd. with the thinsets. ( Clean hot water no soaps !!!) Just ONE OF MANY WAYS I would approach that. ONE most likely different than John and Roberto and certainy JIM!!! But i think you would have a lasting assembly at that......but were on the wrong thread here?

    Now im sounding like those guys at the texas website! NMI !


    Can we get back to PRICING Please !
  5. Vegas_sparky

    Vegas_sparky Eat kitty

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    Location:
    LV,NV/ Nowhere,UT
    Pricing is gonna have to wait, RSCB. Its cold in Vegas when the house your working on is in Utah. Cold morning last winter was -22°F. Glad I have an ICF basement.
  6. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

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    299
    Location:
    Minnesota

    Alright ! Now were getting somewhere....

    Yes John the shower picture is A neo angled with an unfortunately off centered drain! and roughly 3x3.5.

    Included ?: Additional perimiter blocking, 15# felt, 2.5 lath, concrete brick curb, deck mud pan, noble flex and thinbed ts. w/flood test? $700 no grout/tile. I also offer clients a free 1/2 hour consult on how to properly finish the shower getting it tile ready.

    I like your SQ.FT. approach.... But I would have to rethink that based on Jobsite conditions......You know, how far am I lugging 80 lb. bags of crete, is it over concrete or joist? second or third story? condo? apt.? residence? Do I like this client ? do i feel they will be hassle free? who is coming in behind me and possibly damaging my work? How far am I driving etc............. But you just use a flat sq ft. price in all those situations?? You are BRAVE!!!!

    So there is 2 Examples of what A Professional Flood tested tile shower pan cost in 2014 from 2 different areas of North America in 2 different financial markets.

    There has got to be some more "Tile pros" around to chime in and help our industry here?????? C'mon people.....!

    Now Jim do you see how I dont book everyone a non stop flight to that texas website.....Terrys site here is as good a place as any to discuss this.... It may suprise you that people want another opinion, and here we have PLUMBERS GALORE to chime in that in some areas are the guys that "have to" install the liners and of course the drain...........
    Last edited: May 1, 2014
  7. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

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    299
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Well hell, there has been an ongoing debate with your current conundrum for years and if you are in UTAH you are indeed validated I used to live in the Avenues there and it was goddam cold. right near downtown !!!!!!!! I think John has made a new thread for this and soon JIm will be there to save the day. Hold tite.
  8. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    That is a discussion all to itself. If you need to leave a job and have other people working in the room you better be using a 30 mil membrane like Noble Company's Noble Seal TS. Showers it seems become great storage places while the home is being built and waiting for tile work.

    My $85.00 per square is the average. That allows for roughly 6 bags (40 pounds) of screed mortar. If I have to hump it up three flights of floors or if I need 12-18 bags of screed mortar then I add a little more to the price.

    For the shower pan I do include blocking.

    Most quotes get roughly $350-$1250 added for framing upgrades. LVL's. Solid Blocking. Blocking for grab bars, towel bars, toilet paper holders and the like. This framing work can jump over $3,000 in a tricky build.

    But rough basic plain jane - ballpark $350.00
  9. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    If the plumber is installing a ld school liner then it's roughly $1,100 per fixture. The shower would be counted as one fixture if there is not a crazy amount of stuff. Typically for this price you get the rough in work. Flood test. Pressure test. Liner. Cheap Ass drain. Thermostatic rough in. Shower head. Hand held supply. Trim. Price does not include the plubing fixtures but does include the liner, the cheap ass drain, water lines and waste and vent lines.
  10. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Minnesota

    Nice John, More on the price breakdown......So your lookin at a shower that is now ready for backer board....( and we have yet to talk about getting plumb!! (not plumbing but plumb) all important step getting the walls/framing so the CBU is in plane & Plumb but ill assume that is in your low end $350 minimal framing upgrade..)


    [B]Recap : 3x3 PRO BUILD prices.. basic 3x3 shower done right 2014

    A. Pan curb flood test $700-$1050

    B. Framing additions $0 - $350+

    c. Plumbing installation $600- $1100+ (plumbers chime in here)

    D. Plumbing trim kits? $150- 1K + (again please)

    [/B]
    Now were ready to CBU/close up walls and we will not be using drywall, no need for that discussion...lets get to waterproofing or not?


    Im gonna say in this 3x3 shower Im going to CBU, zink rock screws, tape thinset joints, and say, hydrobarrier waterproofing (or similar) tied into my noble pan(since i have that installed already, just one option of many), were gonna put one basic niche in this small shower so i figured that in... no ceiling, that will be painted.


    Im lookin at around $600 labor and materials (and im not marking up materials BTW!), if we get into TS or similar.....where would we be at John?

    If were just shingle lapping a vapor barrier and no waterproofing im less, (and for methere in lies the beauty of the noble pan we built, we can go either way here with many MFG material options.) Still just one of many solid methods IMO. one that will meet exceed code and yeah yer gonna have to toss out the dream...AKA The " WRRTY " but for me this is how i first approach pricing jobs unless the client has a sepcific system in mind and remember were on the lower end budget here on this 3x3...........


    Im thinkin Roberto is not liking this topic ???? No other pros lurkin here wanna chime in!


    Jim, you can price the job at materials and "defense engineer labor rates and let us know where you are at with a foam orange sandwich, while taking into consideration what weve already assumed ."




    Still were getting somewhere IMO ......were just educating homeowners on what to look for in shower pricing these days, which is crazy when you consider Ive had clients tell me they got quotes for $1K to demo and build a complete tile shower..


    Im thinking its a valid discussion, albeit one hard to divulge?
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  11. dhagin

    dhagin builder:anti-builder

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    Location:
    oahu
    Pricing is tough to discuss. First there's regional differences; like accepted practices, codes, weather/climate accommodation, etc... Then there's business structure differences; like a multi million dollar company with crews for each step, a one man show, a general contractor, a handyman - all can be licensed, bonded, insured professionals and follow all the 'rules', and be vastly different in price. Then there's job differences; is it a multi-unit condo with 50 showers all the same, is it a single unit condo on the 20th floor, is it a single family residence that you can back the truck up right to the bathroom door, are you dealing with something on the historical register, or multiple layers of approvals from various boards, etc. Then, of course, there's the materials and methods of install, which can be a whole bunch of threads all their own.

    Sure, a guy can shoot out a ballpark number, but the truth is all jobs are different and pricing will vary. Sometimes it varies a whole bunch.

    To make any pricing discussion have merit, some parameters need to be defined imo. :)
  12. eurob

    eurob In the trades

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    Montreal
    RSCB , I would prefer to use a name , rather than the old CB for RS .

    On the contrary , I am liking the thread . However , the more you go on , the more the scope of the thread expands . I am not sure if we are analyzing it from a tile mechanic POV or from a modeler or renovator POV .


    I am with Dana on this one .:)


    Different showers with different materials and features .....

    TS Shower.jpg 3/4 slab marble -- walls , ceiling , bench , floor cut in smaller formats ......


    LP shower.jpg plumbing includes an electromagnetic valve control by 2 touch buttons for the rain shower with electronic water temperature control....


    LP Shower 1.jpg same shower , the 2''x4'' wall tile include 2 mitered corners of 9' each , shower and glass block marble sills , etc.



    Those are just few examples of showers -- from different POVs -- that can cost 5 digit numbers . Is it 10 or 25 , it depends of a lot of factors .

    You can also get a shower -- tile installation only -- in a 4 digit number . It can be 2 or 4 or 6 , it depends of few factors -- limited options -- .
    Last edited: May 2, 2014
  13. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Thanks Roberto cerob, pretty sure were talkin about kind of a fixed price for a std budget 3 x 3 shower ? Maybe we can clear things up and help folks understand what it should cost and why? What to look for? And what the various components may cost in Your area currently?

    How much is your preferred shower pan and whats all included?

    Im thinkin its a curious pricing topic!
  14. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Dhagin thanks for chiming in , please start at top of thread and get up to speed maybe before reverting to the norm IMHO sir please and thank you!
  15. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Jim, when you compute the orange sandwich please assume you have tool upkeep, insurance , license, you know like you are a daily business with upkeep , go ahead and factor in your lower back too....
  16. eurob

    eurob In the trades

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    516
    Location:
    Montreal

    If the fixed price for a standard budget 3x3 would be more defined -- what is included ( plumbing , tear off , electrical , carpentry , tile , etc . ) -- it would be easier to have a closer range to define a price . In general , someone with a limited price or budget , would not look at options or different ways of doing , except something that is already advertised or meet the demands of the fixed price -- regular vs. epoxy grout , flexible sealant at all changes of planes on tiled surfaces , acrylic vs. tiled shower base floors , etc. -- .


    What to look for is ....easy and hard in the same time . Easy to say it is not necessary -- epoxy grout -- until you need to clean the regular grout -- why didn't you propose it -- , is a simple example .


    A preferred shower pan -- standard one -- would be a mud base with a Schluter regular drain or ACO , Schluter , Deco drain as linear drains -- others can also work -- , hybrid membrane system -- more than the recommended specs . -- , which can go for about 700 to 1,000 $ + the amount for the drain -- flood test included -- .
  17. RedShoecounterbalance

    RedShoecounterbalance Member

    Messages:
    299
    Location:
    Minnesota

    OK so to be clear one more time, .... we simply are trying to understand what a 3x3 basic no frills yet quality built shower should cost and helping clarify what a real tile pro would charge. We understand material and location changes things........whats it like in your area? ballpark is fine.




    here we have another Aprox. Shower pan and curb, price from a pro in Canada.....


    So, from 3 different areas of N. America with 3 different build approaches and different material choices A homeowner could and should expect a Flood tested shower pan that is essentially "tile ready" to be between $700-1K. Material choices, and jobsite conditions may change that number but now we have 3 pro estimates all in a similar range in 3 locales......

    Im thinking this is great info for the industry and more importantly homeowners who have ZERO idea of what this important tricky process should be costing them, and why they get so confused when they get prices from $200-1K !!!!


    So now, We have the pan/curb built and ready , the drain height is set for the pan tile,...we've already budgeted for $5 a sq ft for tile..
    How much is it gonna cost us to close up the walls and get to layout & tiling this shower ?

    On the low end we will just use a vapor barrier and tape/thinset our joints and tile right over it just meeting code, however we would like to waterproof the whole shower and depending on how we built our pan and curb we may have to stick with that system? ......and that will cost a bit more....?????

    With my noble pan i can keep going with either approach......and as stated in previous post Ive already chosen my method for this shower..................
  18. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

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    Location:
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    quote; If the plumber is installing a ld school liner then it's roughly $1,100 per fixture.

    I do NOT price by the fixture. I charge whatever THAT PARTICULAR job costs, whether it is $500.00 or $2,000.00 +/-
  19. eurob

    eurob In the trades

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    516
    Location:
    Montreal

    I am sorry , I didn't get the name ....

    Basic shower could go from 1000$ to 3000$ , depending of the installer involved . The ones which perform them -- standard ones -- will always be cheaper than the ones which perform them -- complex ones -- , just from a statistical POV . I guess you are not fishing for information , aren't you ?

    It wouldn't be fair to assess the costs of a basic ( standard ) shower when I moved away from installing them a long time ago . But the price range is quite real .
  20. johnfrwhipple

    johnfrwhipple Bathroom Design & Build - North Vancouver, B.C.

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    North Vancouver, BC
    I can't remember when I built a basic shower before. I think for this bare bones cheap ass shower build the folks at John Bridge have more experience. Terry's forum seems to showcase the higher end projects more. :) The ones with speciality plumbing. LED lighting. Barrier Free Design and the like.

    If you want cheap and easy - then go visit www.johnbridge.com don't forget to download his E-Book.... LOL
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