Early Design/Planning Questions

[Gary Slusser]

Yes many plumbing problems are due to installer error, always have been and always will be...

You can't lay PVC on rocks without causing problems at some point either, so take the time saved by using PE and make sure there are no sharp edged rocks in the trench and in the fill dirt as you dig the trench. Then roll the PE into the ditch as you walk along the ditch, letting it meander from side to side as it wants to.

Then buy one and follow the directions for using a T handled hose clamp torque wrench (plus a 1/2 to 3/4 turn) for the SS (only, including the screw) hose clamps and double oppose clamp each fitting. I.E. screws 180* from each other pointing in the opposite direction from each other. Wait to tighhten the clamps until the tubing is air temp instead of sucking them tight when it's hot or warm and having them contract to leak later.

Use SS insert fittings underground, not brass or plastic. DO NOT over heat the end of the tubing to get it on the insert fittings. If you start to kink the end while putting it on a fitting, cut the end off far enough back to where there was no heat applied and redo it. PE will save you about 85+% of the time 20' or 10' sections of PVC will take to install. And one guy can do it with PE; 2-3 for PVC.

So spend some of that saved time to do it right and your system will last decades and give you the lest pressure loss of any other material. It will also be the lowest cost you can find. I'd suggest 3 500' rolls plus a 100 or 300' roll for any under estimate of distance and zig-zagging in the trench.

You can use an inexpensive CSV and the 'normal' 20 gal nominal (XT-202 or V60) type pressure tank. And take the family on a vacation for what you'll save compared to the price of those tanks those guys are suggesting. And you'll enjoy a constant pressure system and what you'll eventually save on pump repair/replacements over the years.

 

[Raucina]

PE is great but one guy cannot begin to lift 500' of 1" pipe, much less roll out 300' rolls without help.

If you tighten a HOT hose clamp, it shrinks and gets tighter when it cools, so that should be an advantage.

Top quality USA plastic hose barbs are better than chinese So called stainless steel fittings that are wildly off spec's for thread quality and of curious metallurgy that may fail erratically. The pipe is plastic so doubting the fittings of the same material is an odd call.

The safe way to warm the pipe is with hot water, thus limiting the temp to boiling point.

Here, 160 PSI PE is about .49 cents per foot - how about in the rest of the US?

PVC is still about half the cost per foot with 450 psi typical.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Gary Slusser]

PE is great but one guy cannot begin to lift 500' of 1" pipe, much less roll out 300' rolls without help.

Obviously you have never done it but... a 500' roll of 200 psi rated PE weighs 100 lbs+/- and I alone have rolled them over to the truck and leaned it against the tailgate and leaned over grabbing the bottom of the roll and lifted it onto the truck bed. Then stood it up and rolled it where I wanted it in the bed from outside the truck on the ground and tied it off standing it up against my side rail.

Then I unloaded the 100'-500' roll by reversing the process and rolled it to the trench and walked along the trench unrolling it into the trench, stopping every 100' to cut the tape holding the next 100' until I had unrolled whatever length was needed. And, my wife unrolled many rolls alone. A 500' roll is about 18-20" wide and will stand on its own on flat ground. She can't handle a full 500' roll on slopes though. But she's fine with 300' and shorter rolls.

If you tighten a HOT hose clamp, it shrinks and gets tighter when it cools, so that should be an advantage.

You heat the clamps huh... You're the only one I've ever heard do that but... the hot soft tubing will deform into the shape of the insert fitting if the clamps are tightened when hot/warm. That causes over tightening of the clamps and leaking joints.

Top quality USA plastic hose barbs are better than chinese So called stainless steel fittings that are wildly off spec's for thread quality and of curious metallurgy that may fail erratically. The pipe is plastic so doubting the fittings of the same material is an odd call.

I haven't had that experience and I've never used anything but PE. I've used sch 80 PVC fittings above ground but below ground, red brass and then when they became available, SS.

PVC is still about half the cost per foot with 450 psi typical.

PVC doesn't have the installation flexibility of PE and, by the time you add up the cost of fittings and the additional labor to install all the couplers every 10 or 20', you can't beat one continuous piece of PE and only two fittings.

 

[Rancher]

PVC doesn't have the installation flexibility of PE and, by the time you add up the cost of fittings and the additional labor to install all the couplers every 10 or 20', you can't beat one continuous piece of PE and only two fittings.

They don't sell the 20' lenghts of PVC with one end expanded so it forms the connector where you live? That's the only kind they even sell around here.

Rancher

 

[Speedbump]

Commonly referred to as: Belled End. They come both ways. In Schedule 80 you can buy it with the male and Belled End threaded.

bob...

 

[Gary Slusser]

They don't sell the 20' lenghts of PVC with one end expanded so it forms the connector where you live? That's the only kind they even sell around here.

Yes, it's bell end if you can find it or enough of it, which 'around here' was in central PA and it wasn't that common because PE is used; because it is the best choice and the lowest priced and easiest to install while it has the lowest pressure loss of any material.

Even with bell end, to glue a joint every 20 feet is much harder and takes up much more time than a slowish walk along the trench unrolling a roll of PE. I could probably install 75 feet while you got down in the trench, cleaned and glued the joint and got out of the trench if you had the cleaner and glue cans opened all the time. Which isn't good for either or the joints you'd glue with them by the time you got to the end of the line.

 

[Rancher]

Oh, we assemble the PVC above ground and then lay it in the trench.

Not sure why PE is not available in this area, I asked my wholesaler and of course schedule 80 is also not available, except by special order for either kind. They have also stopped stocking 3" thin wall PVC sewer pipe due to the lack of demand.

Rancher