10-Inch Rough-In

Discussion in 'Toilet Forum discussions' started by NoviceRenovator, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. NoviceRenovator

    NoviceRenovator New Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    New York
    Hi All, I'm in the middle of a gut renovation (prior to which I'd rarely even replaced a light bulb!), so that will give you an idea of how stressed out I am right now! On the bright side, I have a terrific GC and designer, so that's 95% of the battle. They recently told me that, in a bathroom that's only 4 feet wide, they didn't get any additional space after opening up the wall, so we can't do better than the 10-inch rough-in that's currently in place. My design is extremely modern and minimal and sleek - and that's the problem. When they thought we'd be able to use a 12-inch rough toilet, they had chosen the Duravit Starck 3, which worked from a style perspective, although I've always been concerned that the need to limit the footprint of the toilet is more important than style, but I'm trying to achieve both.

    So far, I've searched the internet, including this forum, for some options, so I'm aware of the Toto 10-inch Aquia as well as the Toto 12-inch options that use the Toto Unifit (enabling you to use certain Toto 12-inch models in a 10-inch rough-in, including the Legato, Carlyle, Aimes). Unfortunately, the length of all of them are between 27 1/2 and 28 1/2 - and that leaves very little knee room.

    I'm trying to find a toilet with the following:
    1. length under 26 1/2 and even shorter would be best (24 or 25 would be ideal, as a few inches makes a huge difference in this small bathroom)
    2. a skirt on the side (yes, I'm still trying to be "clean" and minimal and stylish, so I won't use a toilet that doesn't conceal the piping - and that pretty much eliminates all Kohler and American Standard products)
    3. Although I would prefer an elongated model, I'm very willing to go with a round toilet (so long as it's under 26 1/2 and has a side skirt)
    4. I'm seeing some shorter European models but even the short ones still use a 12-in rough

    Not too much to ask, right!!!

    Many thanks for any suggestions!
  2. hj

    hj Moderator & Master Plumber Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,479
    Location:
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    The piping UNDER the floor determines the rough, NOT the toilet, so if the piping can be adjusted, (it won't change anything regarding the room dimensions or space), y can use the toilet you want to.
  3. NoviceRenovator

    NoviceRenovator New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks, HJ. We're completely stuck, in that this is in a condo that won't allow anyone to move the piping. So it sits 10 inches from the wall - and we can't move the wall back or the piping forward. There are 400 other apartments in the building, so the only option is a toilet that will fit in the space (and we can't do a wall mount). Many thanks.
  4. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,054
    Location:
    IL
    A wall-hung toilet with a tank in the wall would be different.
    Check http://www.totousa.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=630
    is only 21-1/8 from the wall. The trick is that the tank is *in* the wall. You can mount it to the exact height you prefer. huge4.png

    You posted your no-wall-mount after I was working on the post, so this is an edit.
  5. NoviceRenovator

    NoviceRenovator New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks, Reach4. A wall mount would solve my problem completely! But it's a total non-starter with the building. Appreciate very much your response.
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

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    2,054
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    IL
  7. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

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    Bothell, Washington
  8. NoviceRenovator

    NoviceRenovator New Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
    New York
    Thanks, Reach4. That Nameeks toilet is very interesting looking indeed!

    Terry/Reach4, just so I'm interpreting it correctly, does this mean that if I add 17.7 for the toilet and 5.72 for the tank = 23.42 inches, is that the finally number - or is there anything that I'm not taking into account? If 23.42 is the final depth, that means I would be saving about 4 inches over the Toto Aquia (which I agree is, so far, the best alternative in terms of "clean" style).
  9. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,054
    Location:
    IL
    I am thinking it means those numbers add, but I have never seen such a toilet. I just searched. I think you should try to get datasheets.
  10. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    New York, NY
    If you're willing to spend that kind of money, then you should look at the Geberit Monolith. http://www.geberitnorthamerica.com/...ilets_2/geberit_monolith_6/for_toilets_9.html

    [​IMG]

    You mount it in front of the wall, and then you can hang pretty much any standard wall-hung or rear-discharge floor mount toilet off of it. You can mount the Toto Aquia wall-mount or the Maris wall-mount, or any Duravit wall-mount or floor-mount-rear-discharge toilet on it. It's expensive ($400+), but cheaper than that other thing above when you add a Duravit or Toto to that money.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 2, 2014
  11. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Not sure which toilet you are asking about.

    The "rough in" is the distance to the center of the flange from the finished wall.

    A "10-inch rough in toilet" is a toilet that FITS on a 10" rough-in. It's a toilet that is designed to discharge its waste in the center of a flange properly mounted ten inches from the wall.
  12. Terry

    Terry Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    14,889
    Location:
    Bothell, Washington
    I've never seen that.
    That looks pretty cool.

    [​IMG]


    07

    [​IMG]


    08

    [​IMG]

    09
  13. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    New York, NY
    You know, I hadn't seen the floor-mount version until today; maybe it's new. I misspoke a bit because they really have two versions. One version (the original I think) of the Monolith allows you essentially to mount and then conceal a carrier and tank in front of the wall, without having to open the wall, or where the wall isn't suitable or where your wall might be common space or otherwise off-limits in a multi-unit building, etc. You end up with something like a wall-mount toilet.

    The other version, the one you posted about, uses your existing floor flange to provide waste disposal for a Duravit floor mount rear discharge toilet. It looks like it's a 12" rough-in only. However, if Geberit could do so, they would make it either infinitely-variable from, say, 7-15 inches so it would be a good solution for an oddball rough-in, as we are often asked about on here. Alternatively, they could provide for a 10" and a 14" rough-in, the way Inax and Toto do.

    I do wonder how that "change of shape" from round to flat-ish on the adapter affects the flow/cloggability of the toilet.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2014
  14. NoviceRenovator

    NoviceRenovator New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New York
    Thanks to everyone for all of this great info. I'm still in the process of investigating them. The Nameeks and the Geberit are very interesting but I'm really looking into whether the net result would be in the neighborhood of 24 or 25 or 26 inches. If not, then I'll probably end up with the Toto Aquia, which is 27 1/2 inches (but I'd really prefer not to end up at 27 1/2). For reasons that I don't fully understand, although the Nameeks looks like it would be 17.7 plus 5.72 = 23.42, my designer said that I'm not accounting for something - and that it would really end up being around 27 inches (or at 23.42 inches it wouldn't work on a 10" rough in). I have a little time, so I'll keep plugging away. If you come up with anything else or can help me understand if the Nameeks would "net net" end up at 23.42, please let me know. Many, many thanks again.
  15. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,054
    Location:
    IL
    I am not at all sure what the deal is with that. http://www.nameeks.com/search/Toilets/ is the marketer website, but it is sure short on dimensions. I suspect your designer got the information right, and that probably was not easy.
  16. Gary Swart

    Gary Swart In the Trades

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    Location:
    Yakima WA
    Maybe I've missed something here, but I have not seen any mention of a Toto using a Unifit adapter.
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,054
    Location:
    IL
    The Unifits toilets are all 28 or more inches deep, I think. Minimizing distance from wall was a major criterion.
  18. NoviceRenovator

    NoviceRenovator New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Location:
    New York
    Yes, that's exactly right. I would probably prefer the Toto Legato which uses the Unifit, but it's about 28 1/2 and it's worth choosing the 27 1/2 Aquia just to save that inch. And, Reach4, my designer, who is more like an architect, was very comfortable the the Nameeks at 23.42 was somehow "off," as you suspect that 23.42 just seems way too short. I tried to call Nameeks today, but they didn't answer the phone. I'll update this post after I've spoken to Nameeks. If it truly is 23.42 then that would be great news to report to everyone.
  19. wjcandee

    wjcandee Wise One

    Messages:
    1,813
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Yeah, but does it flush?

    I'm tellin' ya: Geberit Monolith with a Toto Maris or Aquia wall-mount bowl. $700-800 for the monolith, $250-ish for the bowl. Minimal intrusion into the room, and a guaranteed great flush.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  20. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,054
    Location:
    IL
    That does look like a great choice if that flattening of the path doesn't stop things -- as you pointed out.
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