Water tank won't hold pressure

[WillC91]

Hey I've been messing with my system trying to figure out what's going on with my water, but my water tank still won't hold any pressure.

My setup is a submersible pump in a drilled well that feeds a livestock watering valve, and a T that splits into a water tank and my house. Right now there's about 10 psi water pressure in my tank but as soon as flick the pump off, the tank drains immediately. There's very little water coming out of the livestock valve about 30 feet away and no water in my house about 60 feet away in the other direction. The water is brown too and not getting any clearer.

A company came over and pulled my pump out and said it was no good so I switched it out today. I was having a similar problem before I swapped pumps, the only difference is I have a bit more psi now.

I'm thinking the line is broken somewhere, but is there anything else it could be before I dig it up and commit to installing new lines?

 

[Reach4]

With the pump running, try looking down the casing, and listening. I am not a pro. What I suggest could only show some problems, but it is easy and free.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[PumpMd]

My setup is a submersible pump in a drilled well that feeds a livestock watering valve, and a T that splits into a water tank and my house.

Do you have a way to isolate the others lines, so the submersible pump is just feeding the pressure tank/pressure switch? This is to see which one of those lines has the leak

 

[WillC91]

It seems fine when looking down the casing and hums away.
But unfortunately no, there's no way to isolate each line. I suspect it burst right near the casing as I dug around there to rewire the pump (shorted out in the late fall).

 

[Reach4]

Your pitless is over a meter down, so I doubt you cut a line while working on the splicing... unless you were down that deep.

Sorry no easy troubleshooting.

 

[PumpMd]

I would think you would have standing water around your well casing or somewhere out in your yard. Unless, the company didn't do something right on your drop pipe to cause a leak in your well below your static water level for you to only get 10psi. Pressure testing or just checking for great flow from the submersible pump at the well should be done first. Then work your way through the system to find your leak.

 

[WillC91]

When the problems first started we had temps around -20 C overnight for about 2 weeks and it was -30 C overnight on the day my water stopped flowing altogether.
So I'm thinking the pipe froze near the area I dug up because frost could get down deeper. Hopefully it only burst one place if that's the case because I don't know the exact layout of my water lines.

 

[Valveman]

"Dirty water, no pressure", yeah it sounds like a broken line underground. If the line is deep enough, sometimes the leaking water won't come to the surface so you can easily find the leak.

 

[Boycedrilling]

I years ago I i
Had a contract to install an irrigation pipe line in very rocky ground. Our contract required the pipelines be pressure tested before acceptance. One line had a 1 1/2 gpm leak. Instead of digging up the pipeline until we found the leak, the owner agreed that we would wait until the leaked showed at the surface. And we would then fix it. This section with the leak was well over a mile long. It took a year and a half before we had a wet spot at the surface.

In your case however, your probably right. Recent work is the most likely place of a leak. The dirty water also is a very strong clue the leak is in the underground pipe, not in the well.

 

[Reach4]

The dirty water also is a very strong clue the leak is in the underground pipe, not in the well.

That seems like a very good point now that I re-think it.

The water is brown too and not getting any clearer.

I had not thought about brown meaning dirt leaking in. I was thinking rust was stirred up during the "messing around, because I am not used to brown dirt. If that is dirt in the water, that could be a nice clue.

 

[PumpMd]

His leak is a lot more than just 1 1/2 gpm. He is only building 10psi and he has a low gpm rate against his leak.

You also just changed your submersible pump out, which can stir the well up to cause dirty water. I believe it's underground as well, but it's best to start at your source and work your way through the system.

 

[LLigetfa]

If the line is deep enough, sometimes the leaking water won't come to the surface so you can easily find the leak.

I had a former boss who had a leak that went undetected for many months. He fought with the power company for months about his bill that gradually increased to more than double. The underground leak was where the well/pump man had dug up his waterline that was coming from his old well to cut and tie in the line from the new well. It was an elbow there that wore a hole in it. The well/pump man did not cap off the line to the old well and the water that leaked out of the elbow found its way to the old well.

Months went by before the leak got worse to the point the old well would not take the GPM of the leak and started to overflow. That too went on for more than a month to the point the leak got so bad there was no pressure in the house which was when they realized there was a leak.

 

[WillC91]

So I just dug up about 30 feet of the water line from the well towards the T that splits to the house and pressure tank. Still haven't found any breaks and I capped off the T that heads toward the livestock valve and the pressure still drops when the pump is off.
That tells me the issue is in the line that runs into the pressure tank or into my house. After digging this far I'm planning to put in a new line to the pressure tank and my house.
People have mentioned the pressure tank itself may be the problem here. I've never shot air into it, but would a broken tank give me the symptoms I have? (low pressure, brown water, pressure drop when pump is off, no water far from the well)

 

[Reach4]

So I just dug up about 30 feet of the water line from the well towards the T that splits to the house and pressure tank. Still haven't found any breaks and I capped off the T that heads toward the livestock valve and the pressure still drops when the pump is off.
That tells me the issue is in the line that runs into the pressure tank or into my house.

Replacing at least one of those valves that stop water to the rest of the house sure seems even more worthwhile now.

If you have a softener, look at the drain line to be sure that is not draining water. Check that none of your toilets are running water between flushes. Normally a WH T+P valve output should drain to a place that is readily seen. If yours is not, check to make sure no water is coming out of that.

People have mentioned the pressure tank itself may be the problem here. I've never shot air into it, but would a broken tank give me the symptoms I have? (low pressure, brown water, pressure drop when pump is off, no water far from the well)

No, but it could make the effect of a small leak larger.

I would check and set the air precharge. Normal air pressure is 2 PSI lower than the pressure switch cut-on. Precharge is checked or set when the water pressure is zero. The precharge pressure should be the same 10 minutes, 2 hours, or 2 weeks later when checked.

 

[LLigetfa]

would a broken tank give me the symptoms I have? (low pressure, brown water, pressure drop when pump is off

A busted bladder can give you brown water. The air side of the bladder is not meant to see water and so it is unlined. When water does co-mingle with the air on that side it gets really cruddy looking.

If/when the bladder is busted and the tank waterlogged, there is little to no pressure reserve in the tank so you only see good pressure when the pump is running. When the pump stops, the small reserve is quickly depleted so even a small leak or water use will cause the pump to cycle on. If the pressure is normal while the pump is running then there is not a big leak. With a big leak it would steal the pressure when the pump is running and if big enough, it might keep the pump from ever reaching the cutoff pressure.

 

[LLigetfa]

If you have a softener, look at the drain line to be sure that is not draining water. Check that none of your toilets are running water between flushes. Normally a WH T+P valve output should drain to a place that is readily seen. If yours is not, check to make sure no water is coming out of that.

Icemakers, humidifiers, and RO filters are other places to check for water use.

I would have changed out those gate valves long before I started daylighting 30 feet of pipe. While you have the plumbing cut open to thread on new valves, you could also thread on some air fittings and pressurize the lines with air to see if they leak of not. You can choose to leave the air fitting in case you ever want to blow out a line or to test it again or replace it with a plug.