Tub leak at waste and overflow

[Fredalbee123]

Hello all,

I recently had a tub leak from my kids bathroom (noticed but the ceiling in our living room below).

Prior to the leak I had used the bent end of a clothes hanger to clean the hair out. My daughter informed me days later that it was still not draining well and that the lever to keep the water in the tub would not go up or down, and at that point I notice the drywall damage. I went back and found a razor cover, which I am sure caused the piston of the drain plug to not go down all the way.

Because of the drainage issue, I initially thought it was a drain leak issue. However, when I cut a hole in the ceiling drywall and poured a bucket of water from a different source, it did not leak.

I then took the cover off the faucet valve:

I observed some water dripping from the Moen cartridge ( I feel like I replaced about 8 years ago when I moved into the 1977 built house). I am hoping this is the only leak, but by the staining on the drywall, I am a bit surprised it would only be from here unless the flow changes.

I have the following questions that I am hoping someone would be willing to help me out:

-Do I need to apply silicone to the new cartridge when I install it?

-The hot water stop valve has mineral deposit. I did not see it actively leaking. Should I be concerned with it? Should I proactively replace the stop valves?
-Anything else you would suggest I do to troubleshoot to identify/confirm leak?
-On the overflow gasket, after I clean up around the area should I apply any silicone where the gasket is pressed against the tub?:

-Ever since I moved into the house, when the faucet is pulled out in the vertical position, I get cold/temped water, when I turn left, I get hot water, however, when I turn it right, after I get past the 1:00 position and all the way to the 3:00 position the water shuts completely off. I replaced the cartridge before and this did not fix it. Does anyone know what might be happening here?

-While I have a hole in the ceiling I was going to replace my drain. Any suggestions or thing I should consider when I do that?

-Should I silicone around the faucet?

Thank you!!!

Fred

 

[John Gayewski]

Replace/rebuild everything you can get to. Including the stops.

I'm not that into silicone caulk although I do use it sometimes. I like to use pipe dope to help gaskets form a positive seal and slide into place such as the tub overflow.

If your asking about silicone grease in the cartridge yes that is good, but it doesn't need slathered.

I like toe tap or lift and turn tub drains. Mechanisms inside of your drainage system with moving parts is asking for trouble, that was always a bad idea I don't know why it was ever a thing.

I don't like those Moen faucets and just replace them because I don't think they salvage that well. I'm sure plenty of people have good luck with them but they are just badly designed in my opinion

 

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[WorthFlorida]

I observed some water dripping from the Moen cartridge ( I feel like I replaced about 8 years ago when I moved into the 1977 built house). I am hoping this is the only leak, but by the staining on the drywall, I am a bit surprised it would only be from here unless the flow changes.


...........-Do I need to apply silicone to the new cartridge when I install it?
...........-The hot water stop valve has mineral deposit. I did not see it actively leaking. Should I be concerned with it?

The cartridge might be weeping some water. Place the handle back on and allow the water to flow out of the tub spot. You'll see water if the cartridge is leaking. Another source could be the shower head. Run the shower and look for any leaks from the valve body to the shower head. The shower arm threaded into the drop ear could be a source as overtime corrosion could cause a leak.

The green staining near the stop valve is usually not from any leaks It's the copper in the brass oxidizing. You'll usually see it at copper sweated fittings where the old acid solder flux remained on the copper causing oxidation.

Replacement cartridges do come with silicone grease. Remove the old cartridge open the stops just slightly to flush out any debris. Using a green scrubbing pad wipe the inside of the valve body to clean out any mineral build up.

Should I proactively replace the stop valves?
.......-Anything else you would suggest I do to troubleshoot to identify/confirm leak?
.......-On the overflow gasket, after I clean up around the area should I apply any silicone where the gasket is pressed against the tub?:

..........-Ever since I moved into the house, when the faucet is pulled out in the vertical position, I get cold/temped water, when I turn left, I get hot water, however, when I turn it right, after I get past the 1:00 position and all the way to the 3:00 position the water shuts completely off. I replaced the cartridge before and this did not fix it. Does anyone know what might be happening here?

.........-While I have a hole in the ceiling I was going to replace my drain. Any suggestions or thing I should consider when I do that?
.........-Should I silicone around the faucet?

Overflow gaskets do not leak unless the tub is filled to the overflow level. However do buy a replacement gasket and remove the old one and wiggle in a new one careful it doesn't fall behind the tub. Do clean the area behind the tub and as John suggest, remove the level mechanism and replace it with a plain overflow.

At the drain replace it with a toe stopper. https://www.homedepot.com/p/DANCO-Touch-Toe-Bath-Tub-Drain-Trim-Kit-in-Chrome-88981/202745113. The only place to use silicone would be under the drain flange.

No reason to replace the drain assemble., just the top side from the tub. Do replace the washer between the tub and drain shoe. It looks like it is all brass and it should last a lifetime.

This Moen cartridge stem may be missing external stops under the handle or they were build into the handle. These MOEN's you pulled out the handle to run the water. 3 o'clock is full cold, 9 o'clock is full hot. the handle should not go past these positions.

The tub spot obviously too far out. Remove the spout either with a set screw or it untreads. Shorten the stub out and reassemble. A little silicone behind the spout is OK but I prefer siliconized caulk.

As John suggest you can replace everything. If you have access behind the shower wall to open it up and I would changed out the valve body with a Delta tub shower valve body.

 

[Reach4]

Do I need to apply silicone to the new cartridge when I install it?

To some people, silicone means silicone adhesive.
To some people, silicone means silicone grease.

 

[Fredalbee123]

Thank you all for your responses; really appreciate it!!!

 

[Fredalbee123]

I have a plunger style drain.

From the online reviews, the toe press type seem to not hold up because of the plastic parts.
Does the plunger type have enough historical problems that I really should replace with something else like a twist and pull?

Rather than updating what I already have:

I know it was pretty much already answered, just want to confirm that the other style wasn’t being referred to which does seem to have inherent design issues (in drain flow path):

Thanks again!
Fred

 

[John Gayewski]

I use toe taps. There are some made badly just like anything. I don't have problems with them. But then again I buy them from a plumbing supply store rather than big box stores.

I have less experience with lift and turn but the same goes. There are better quality types.


When I switched from your style to toe tap I just pulled the guts out from above and switched the drain and overflow cover and slipped new gasket in from the tub. I still have the old parts for if I decide I don't like it. That hasn't happened.

 

[Fredalbee123]

Thanks John!