Beth W.
New Member
Relax, have a glass of milk and a cookie, this is a long one...
Hi, this is Beth W. from the thread on April 17th. "Too Much Water Treatment for Well Water Results?" Karlabs:
Calcium 46.3 mg/L,
Manganese 0.189 mg/L
Iron 0.38 mg/L
Sulfur, total, by ICP 5.4 mg/L
Alkalinity (CaCO3) 194 mg/L
Hardness 167 mg/L and 9.7 grains per gallon
PH 7.8
Sulfate 15 mg/L
Turbidity 3.31 NTU
Total Dissolved Solids 290 mg/L
No nitrates, nitrites, arsenic or lead. No bacteria.
Water has sulfur smell.
Also: Hot water heater needs to be replaced and will get a powered anode for it. http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/OrderPages/Powered-Anode-FAQ.html
One recommendation from Dittohead was that we could try a Katalox Light filter + water softener and leave room to add hydrogen peroxide injection+ contact tank if needed. The first recommendation was to use hydrogen peroxide injection +contact tank+ Katalox Light Filter +water softener from the start. My sister wanted to try the simpler suggestion, based on cost, then expand if needed.
Additional information: the new water softener has to be installed in a different location in the cellar than the old one so it meets code. Extra piping is involved in the job and putting in an electrical outlet is needed. House is about 150 years old.
My sister can't find a water treatment company or a plumber/plumbing company in the Binghamton, NY area (Broome County), so far, who is willing and able to install what was recommended above. My sister showed the KarLab results to each company who gave her an estimate. She listened to the test results they came up with first. Also no company, plumbing or water treatment, evaluated the water for amount and type of sediment.
1 and 2. Two companies we looked into in the area sell either Kinectco or Culligan products so they are out since we're looking for Clack or Fleck valves.
3. One highly regarded water treatment company, "B", uses MTM with hydrogen peroxide injection. The good thing is that they use Clack valves. The bad thing is that they use hydrogen peroxide with MTM. The owner refused to consider using Katalox Light (to remove iron, manganese, sulfur and sediment) instead of MTM. He said he has used his method for many years and is qualified to know what is best. Seemed insulted when we asked why he used hydrogen peroxide instead of the recommended chlorine injection and potassium permanganate with MTM. Gave him the link with the information. I emailed Clack Corp. later to verify. http://www.clackcorp.com/downloads/ion_exchange_resin_and_filter_media/mtm_2353.pdf
Ignored my suggestion to call you, dittohead, and discuss Katalox Light usage. I did give him your phone number.
We were looking forward to hiring "B" as they are familiar with the 100+ year old houses in our area and our wells. This company was the only one to bring up the need for an electrical outlet in the new location and to point out that a "handyman" had installed the Whirlpool whole house sediment filter incorrectly and unsafely. Good points in their favor!
He was the only person to recommend the use of Iron Out and resin cleaner with the water softener. Are they needed when you use Katalox Light? ____________
We asked "B" to substitute Katalox Light for the MTM. No. And to hold off on the hydrogen peroxide + contact tank for now. Just leave room for it. No
Their quote for the whole shebang, to include everything, was around $4,200. What we asked for would be less.
4. A plumber, "Z", from a well- established plumbing company that uses Fleck valves went to my sister's house to do an estimate. He took off the toilet tank lid and said she had Iron Bacteria. It's Sulfur Bacteria based on what we've observed and read. http://www.chemtechford.com/ironbacteria.html Could be both. After his water testing he gave her a verbal estimate. The cost was $7,300 (!) for chlorine injection, retention tank, water softener and GAC filter.
He wouldn't give her a written estimate unless she said yes right then! He said it was a busy time of year. She said she'd think about it. My sister was so surprised at "Z's" attitude she didn't bring up the use of Katalox Light with or without hydrogen peroxide injection.
5. On to a very nice plumber,"S", who recommended a 1 cu.ft. Sterling water softener (has a Fleck valve, I think) to be installed in a new location, per code, with all the necessary piping the move entails and to move the whole house sediment filter to a new location. His quote was $1760. He did some water testing and was shown the KarLabs results.
No mention of a filter to remove iron, manganese, sulfur, etc.
No mention of chlorine or hydrogen water injection or contact tanks.
No mention of which new sediment filter he would use.
No recommendation for Iron Out or resin cleaner for the water softener.
In his emailed estimate "S" also give us a quote, as requested, for a new oil fired hot water heater and for removing an old wood burning stove. Obviously he was not focused on the well water test results for water treatment.
On behalf of my sister, I sent him an email thanking him for his estimate. I asked him about using a filter with Katalox Light based on our lab results and which resin they used in the water softener .
I asked if he was able to find the hot water heater my sister asked about. Bock oil-fired hot water heater, low boy style. His company sells Bradford White but he said he would ask around for a Bock.
No response from the email. I think my sister should follow up with a phone call.
From these examples we sense an "It's my way or the highway" attitude in some of them and a narrow scope of thinking, education, training and/or experience in water treatment options in all of them. We just need to find the right one for my sister.
How to get them to expand their knowledge base and to encourage them to try new products? To listen to and work with potential customers...more customers equals more money!
Can anyone recommend a company or an individual plumber in the Binghamton, NY (Broome County) area who can fulfill my sister's requests for water treatment?
Thank you and God Bless if you made it through to the end!
Hi, this is Beth W. from the thread on April 17th. "Too Much Water Treatment for Well Water Results?" Karlabs:
Calcium 46.3 mg/L,
Manganese 0.189 mg/L
Iron 0.38 mg/L
Sulfur, total, by ICP 5.4 mg/L
Alkalinity (CaCO3) 194 mg/L
Hardness 167 mg/L and 9.7 grains per gallon
PH 7.8
Sulfate 15 mg/L
Turbidity 3.31 NTU
Total Dissolved Solids 290 mg/L
No nitrates, nitrites, arsenic or lead. No bacteria.
Water has sulfur smell.
Also: Hot water heater needs to be replaced and will get a powered anode for it. http://www.waterheaterrescue.com/OrderPages/Powered-Anode-FAQ.html
One recommendation from Dittohead was that we could try a Katalox Light filter + water softener and leave room to add hydrogen peroxide injection+ contact tank if needed. The first recommendation was to use hydrogen peroxide injection +contact tank+ Katalox Light Filter +water softener from the start. My sister wanted to try the simpler suggestion, based on cost, then expand if needed.
Additional information: the new water softener has to be installed in a different location in the cellar than the old one so it meets code. Extra piping is involved in the job and putting in an electrical outlet is needed. House is about 150 years old.
My sister can't find a water treatment company or a plumber/plumbing company in the Binghamton, NY area (Broome County), so far, who is willing and able to install what was recommended above. My sister showed the KarLab results to each company who gave her an estimate. She listened to the test results they came up with first. Also no company, plumbing or water treatment, evaluated the water for amount and type of sediment.
1 and 2. Two companies we looked into in the area sell either Kinectco or Culligan products so they are out since we're looking for Clack or Fleck valves.
3. One highly regarded water treatment company, "B", uses MTM with hydrogen peroxide injection. The good thing is that they use Clack valves. The bad thing is that they use hydrogen peroxide with MTM. The owner refused to consider using Katalox Light (to remove iron, manganese, sulfur and sediment) instead of MTM. He said he has used his method for many years and is qualified to know what is best. Seemed insulted when we asked why he used hydrogen peroxide instead of the recommended chlorine injection and potassium permanganate with MTM. Gave him the link with the information. I emailed Clack Corp. later to verify. http://www.clackcorp.com/downloads/ion_exchange_resin_and_filter_media/mtm_2353.pdf
Ignored my suggestion to call you, dittohead, and discuss Katalox Light usage. I did give him your phone number.
We were looking forward to hiring "B" as they are familiar with the 100+ year old houses in our area and our wells. This company was the only one to bring up the need for an electrical outlet in the new location and to point out that a "handyman" had installed the Whirlpool whole house sediment filter incorrectly and unsafely. Good points in their favor!
He was the only person to recommend the use of Iron Out and resin cleaner with the water softener. Are they needed when you use Katalox Light? ____________
We asked "B" to substitute Katalox Light for the MTM. No. And to hold off on the hydrogen peroxide + contact tank for now. Just leave room for it. No
Their quote for the whole shebang, to include everything, was around $4,200. What we asked for would be less. 4. A plumber, "Z", from a well- established plumbing company that uses Fleck valves went to my sister's house to do an estimate. He took off the toilet tank lid and said she had Iron Bacteria. It's Sulfur Bacteria based on what we've observed and read. http://www.chemtechford.com/ironbacteria.html Could be both. After his water testing he gave her a verbal estimate. The cost was $7,300 (!) for chlorine injection, retention tank, water softener and GAC filter.
He wouldn't give her a written estimate unless she said yes right then!
He said it was a busy time of year. She said she'd think about it. My sister was so surprised at "Z's" attitude she didn't bring up the use of Katalox Light with or without hydrogen peroxide injection. 5. On to a very nice plumber,"S", who recommended a 1 cu.ft. Sterling water softener (has a Fleck valve, I think) to be installed in a new location, per code, with all the necessary piping the move entails and to move the whole house sediment filter to a new location. His quote was $1760. He did some water testing and was shown the KarLabs results.
No mention of a filter to remove iron, manganese, sulfur, etc.
No mention of chlorine or hydrogen water injection or contact tanks.
No mention of which new sediment filter he would use.
No recommendation for Iron Out or resin cleaner for the water softener.
In his emailed estimate "S" also give us a quote, as requested, for a new oil fired hot water heater and for removing an old wood burning stove. Obviously he was not focused on the well water test results for water treatment.
On behalf of my sister, I sent him an email thanking him for his estimate. I asked him about using a filter with Katalox Light based on our lab results and which resin they used in the water softener .
I asked if he was able to find the hot water heater my sister asked about. Bock oil-fired hot water heater, low boy style. His company sells Bradford White but he said he would ask around for a Bock.
No response from the email. I think my sister should follow up with a phone call.
From these examples we sense an "It's my way or the highway" attitude in some of them and a narrow scope of thinking, education, training and/or experience in water treatment options in all of them. We just need to find the right one for my sister.
How to get them to expand their knowledge base and to encourage them to try new products? To listen to and work with potential customers...more customers equals more money!
Can anyone recommend a company or an individual plumber in the Binghamton, NY (Broome County) area who can fulfill my sister's requests for water treatment?
Thank you and God Bless if you made it through to the end!
